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rasqual
08-20-2005, 10:08 PM
Whokay, I sent one on his way. No location information for him yet, but he's on his way. I recognize that he may fall into a time warp if he gets lost between builds of Mickey's code. ;-)

I'm wondering if you're building this time factor into the architecture of army movements, or bolting it onto attacking events only (the latter would be unfortunate). I withdrew an army from a city, and it did the usual teleporting through space. I also added an army to a city, and it also only teleported.

Will the need to travel be consistent? That'd be so cool. Then you could garrison armies in cities and re-deploy one or two to a nearby hotspot as needed. I do think boot camp should be limited to one global location, though -- though I also think recruits should have to travel to get to that boot camp, limiting the home base locations to the region of one's predominant population center.

. . . .

Aaack! No, no home base specified in the "Move army to"! Noooooo!

But . . . but don't you see? That would be how one "withdraws" from a city. This isn't an add-on function -- it's a transformation, expansion, extension and strengthening of what you already had in place (which you therefore no longer need [withdrawal]).

Mickey
08-20-2005, 10:21 PM
I recognize that he may fall into a time warp if he gets lost between builds of Mickey's code. ;-)
Very possible...


I'm wondering if you're building this time factor into the architecture of army movements, or bolting it onto attacking events only (the latter would be unfortunate). I withdrew an army from a city, and it did the usual teleporting through space. I also added an army to a city, and it also only teleported.
All movements.


Aaack! No, no home base specified in the "Move army to"! Noooooo!
It is now.


But . . . but don't you see? That would be how one "withdraws" from a city. This isn't an add-on function -- it's a transformation, expansion, extension and strengthening of what you already had in place (which you therefore no longer need [withdrawal]).
I understand. Some of the teleporting that you can still do is simply a result of unfinished coding. :)

rasqual
08-20-2005, 10:44 PM
Quick note while I have your attention: I think wells should indeed reduce yield over time (that's been suggested by others), but they should also be able to be sold to interested buyers at any point in their history. Anyone marketing a well would be forced to give an honest prospectus.

cheakerdoodels
08-20-2005, 11:03 PM
I Think that if wells do deminish over time they will have to start higher and if we implement this feature now current wells will have a disadvantage.

rasqual
08-22-2005, 04:31 AM
On moving armies, still:

No, this isn't good. Well, it's fortunate at the moment, but it ain't good, really.

Mickey, you took off for Alaska yesterday, and I figured I better deploy some reinforcements. So I sent an army from Shanghai, then sent another from the home base to Shanghai. Shanghai was closer to Alaska, and I figured it would be a bit of a race to beat you to the battlefield.

So today I come in, and lo -- my armies are confused and wandering, again. You handily beat me to Anchorage, so in desperation I did what remains unfortunately obvious -- I simply moved troops into the army already in Alaska. No travel time or anything -- they just dropped in from space.

Now as I say, in this instance I'm fortunate I could do that. ;-) But it really subverts the entire project of sending armies here and there, over time, delightfully using the GE UI to show it all (though my armies are STILL wandering entirely insanely). So I send two armies half-way around the planet and it takes hours -- big deal. I can send a squad of new recruits to join the army already there, simply by dropping them in from space. ;-)

That's gotta change. Either that or you're conceptualizing recruitment of troops from the cities that are occupied. There's some possibility there, I'll grant. But then that city's garrison should have it's own budget for such troops, or something. I dunno. I just think it's sad that something cool like these races to deal with a foe in transit are rendered moot when any of us can jack up the numbers in the cities with a space drop.

</rant>

Good luck!

birq
08-22-2005, 04:35 AM
</rant>

Run-time error: Unmatched </rant> tag.

araT
08-22-2005, 05:05 AM
You smartass, birq :p :D

T.

elk-tamer
08-22-2005, 05:29 AM
I think the whole first sentence was the implied opening <rant> tag.

I love the space drop, but I also agree with Raquel about the subversion of the travel feature. You could send armies to many cities, camp them, and then suddenly buy troops for your real target.

I do think though, that moving armies in the real world is much quicker once a foreign base is set-up. What if the first army travelled at the current speed, then troops travelled at a different speed? Maybe two or three times as fast?

Mickey
08-22-2005, 11:46 AM
So today I come in, and lo -- my armies are confused and wandering, again.
I think they weren't confused - they were just taking the long way around. Since Shanghai is longitude 121 and Anchorage is -140, the script is counting down from 121 to -140, rather than going up to 180/-180 and going that way. I'll have to work on that. Would that seem to make sense, given wherever your armies were?


You handily beat me to Anchorage, so in desperation I did what remains unfortunately obvious -- I simply moved troops into the army already in Alaska. No travel time or anything -- they just dropped in from space.
My thought here is that since you own Anchorage, you have a bit of a (hidden) economy and could generate the troops there yourself. Me, sitting outside the city, cannot add troops to my army. Maybe require that you hold a city for xx hours before you can use it to add troops to an army.

Mickey
08-22-2005, 03:12 PM
Ok, I think I have this straightened out. I moved my army from Anchorage to Shanghai, and it seems to be heading the right direction.

I had some issues with getting the coordinates to work correctly going from -180 to +180 (rather than the long way around), but it seems to work now.

If you have any troops right now that are going the long way, just let them go. If you initiate any new moves and they go haywire, let me know so I can look into it.

rasqual
08-22-2005, 03:24 PM
I think they weren't confused - they were just taking the long way around. Since Shanghai is longitude 121 and Anchorage is -140, the script is counting down from 121 to -140, rather than going up to 180/-180 and going that way. I'll have to work on that. Would that seem to make sense, given wherever your armies were?.

Whoa, whoah! (favorite exclamation this week) It isn't doing great circle navigation? Yikes! I found this, FWIW:
http://www.karakas-online.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347


My thought here is that since you own Anchorage . . .

Did. Some rogue ;-) nailed me while my troops were roaming the planet, wishing for someone to rescue them from the curse of bad Polaris code.


you have a bit of a (hidden) economy and could generate the troops there yourself. Me, sitting outside the city, cannot add troops to my army. Maybe require that you hold a city for xx hours before you can use it to add troops to an army.

Yeah, but conscripting greenhorns because the contractor who gave your seasoned forces their nav gear is responsible for 'em doing a peregrine Odyssey -- well, it wouldn't give the recruits much faith in their commanders.

Seriously, have you looked at some of these paths traveled, and the time required? There's nothing linear about the times. It's impossible to guestimate, even, how long such trips will take. It's just evil when the eye can SEE the great circle (GE is great for seeing what you just can't on a projection chart), but then your armies go off and not only don't do a bad great circle, but head off on some parabolic ellipsoidal circumnavigation of a detour.

Alas!

Mickey
08-22-2005, 04:45 PM
Whoa, whoah! (favorite exclamation this week)
I see that. :)


It isn't doing great circle navigation? Yikes! I found this, FWIW:
http://www.karakas-online.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347
Correct, it is not currently doing great circle. That link is helpful, though.



Seriously, have you looked at some of these paths traveled, and the time required? There's nothing linear about the times. It's impossible to guestimate, even, how long such trips will take.
If nothing, the times should be completely linear, with lack of great circle navigation figured in. However, if the scale is off (too slow, too fast), that's very easy to adjust. I figured I'd be tweaking that a great deal, but so far it's just using my initial rough guess.


It's just evil when the eye can SEE the great circle (GE is great for seeing what you just can't on a projection chart), but then your armies go off and not only don't do a bad great circle, but head off on some parabolic ellipsoidal circumnavigation of a detour.
Agreed. However, their navigation *should* be fairly predictable now. The simply move up/down the latitude a bit at a time, while simultaneously moving across the longitude. Simple math - no complex great circle stuff yet.

rasqual
08-22-2005, 07:14 PM
I love your yets. ;-)