PDA

View Full Version : Getting out of beta- the bigger picture on how to integrate our game into a software



qrnster
08-30-2005, 10:15 PM
Based on Mickey's offical do to list, I have come up with some interesting ideas to integrate them (and some other ideas) into a software.


It would be useful to keep track of statistics, both for users (confidential information for them alone), as well as collectively. For example, I might like to know how many armies I spent defending a particular city over a period of a few weeks. It might be useful to break it down by date, as well as giving totals. Then for everyone, summary statistics could be given -- how many players spent how many armies fighting over which cities, and so forth.

There could be a bar at the bottom of the software (thinking that we will not use the current Google Earth interface) with tabs. The first tab could be stats. You could search for stats using an online database in a partnership with Google. The bar at the bottom would be called the 'function bar.


any chance that it could be made so that if you captured the majority of population in a given country, then you'd become 'ruler' of the country.

The parts of the country would be highlighted by the user's colour. The tab would also show stats of anything you click on- a moving army, a city, a country and who owns the majority of it, and therefore that person can call upon minority people's armies to defend the country.


How about a "news" page, something that gives a narrative of important changes to the geopolitical situation? Not like journalism; it would be principally statistical, reading like a tickler of events.

There could be a 'News' tab, which would tell you about who attacked who recently, and and archives database- based on Google- to tell when someone attacked- possibly Google News???!!!


You could have game stats ping a png overlay file in real-time. Google Earth supports overlays (hud display-esque) and can auto-refresh. Might be nice for a scoreboard or something.

The stats could be put in the stats tab- but this is not a bad idea for a battle. There could be a board on the top right corner of the software telling you the details of an attack or when you had to defend. It could also tell you your current ranking. This would be called the scoreboard.


it would be useful, if the placemark "last attack" would mark the city, what was attacked (like the "you found a jewel" mark marks the jewel) and if you use an other symbol for that. something like a huge skull would be great

This could easily be done with ease without the use of the scoreboard- perhaps in the News Tab (in the function bar), when showing the last city attacked, you could click on a link to the placemark.

The function bar would also have a resources tab, with sub-tabs (tabs in the bar, under the more important tabs) saying the sorts of resources you could buy.


How about intelligence reports that cost jewels? That's basically what spies do, anyway. So if I want to see when a particular user is active, for example -- I mean, I want to be able to have access to reports that show when the person did what -- bought armies, gained jewels, etc. (sysop-type info!), I can. For a price.

This could be under the Military & Intelligence tab. Under (in sub tabs) there could be an intelligence tab, where you can choose from a selection of spies (possibly movie spies- James Bond etc) which would have different capabilities (Speed, Strength, Covertness- I know that's not a real word!, Overall.) and different prices. (nothing too high- perhaps the price of two armies). These spies would have to be good enough to give you a chance of gaining intelligence. Perhaps, under another sub tab- saying guards, you could have guards who protect the information. Your guards versus their spies capability (and vice-versa) would create the ultimate result of whether you get intelligence or not. However, the best sort of guard should be the same price as the best sort of spy.


It'd be class to be able to either train soldiers or buy different types of soldiers, e.g. marines etc, or for example tanks etc. which would enable cities to much more difficult to take over. Obviously these would cost more but it would take proportinately more weaker soldiers to defeat them. Also could experience be training so the longer a group survives the better they become?

This could be in a sub tab under Military and Intelligence in the function bar. Also, the capability of armies would be displayed in stats tab if you ask for it. Based on the overall rating vs the overall rating of another or different type of army, this could determine the result in a battle.


It would be good to hear how many armies attacked, as well. It might even be worth mentioning which armies they were.

This could be under the stats and news tab in the function bar.


It would be nice to trade armies in for Geos. It would also be nice if you'd get .75 Geos per troop, just like it costs to buy them.

This would be under the Marketplace tab in the function bar, in a sub tab called- trade armies. The other sub tabs in Marketplace would be trade assets, trade jewels.


think there should be a "convert all"-button on the convert ressources page so you dont have to enter manually the maximum number into the field.

In the marketplace tab in the function bar.


First the ability to combine armies I still have quite a few seperate armies and woould like to combine them.

This would be under the Military and Intelligence tab, under the Armies sub-tab. Also there would be the oppurtunity to attack a city if you were to do so, or occupy one, or be notified when a city was decontaminated. (the city decontamination one could also be in the news tab) All of these could also appear on the scoreboard- which could pop up to tell you.


In my opinion it is sad when you first enter the GEwar-site and you were told that you`ve been attacked, which city, by whom and if i lost or won but I can`t see the fights. For me it is interesting by many armys/troops Ive been attacked and so on. When I attack sb. the information were given to me, but not to my enemy. On the other hand when Ive been attacked I knew nothing about the fight. Please give the attacked players the possibility to get the statistics.

Stats tab in function bar.


Click an enemy's pup tent, and have a link to attack 'em. Select which army, from where, and that army goes out to intercept and attack 'em, travelling direct to the computed intercept point.

Stats tab, and Armies tab in the function bar.


Diamond Mine in South Africa.

Done already! Can be viewed in resources tab, and stats tab.




Default In-Game Messaging!?
This would be perfect!

We should have the opportunity to communicate with each other before shedding blood of those poor virtual troops

I am tired of renaming my armies in order to communicate with others!...


Hey that can be done. If you can see the latest news you should definetely be able to see when you have a new message. I don't think that should be that hard.

In Game Messaging not suggested in Mickey's sticky to do list, but a very good idea. Possible integration with Google Talk? In a chat tab in the function bar.

Ultimately, I am sure Google would love to give a database or search Google Earth Hacks for stats in GEWar. And they would like to use Google Talk with us because if the game gets big Google Talk becomes more popular- as does Google News if it was integrated. Google would love it because it would be an integration of all of their services. Of course, don't forget, they would want the search bar. Even if Google didn't contribute it could still be done without them.




Tell me what you think- please it took ages to write this post!!!

qrnster
08-30-2005, 10:26 PM
what do you think? i'm not too sure anyone is keen from breaking away from the Google interface, but it is not the best interface for war.

qrnster
08-30-2005, 10:31 PM
Also, could there be a animation of when two players have a meeting. And when you have nukes headed at you, your character is sitting in a room, with GE projected onto a wall, and the sirens start wailing and red lights start flashing.

qrnster
08-30-2005, 10:33 PM
Anyone? Please! :mad: :spin:

qrnster
08-30-2005, 10:38 PM
Aah! You're all following other threads. :mad:

qrnster
08-30-2005, 10:51 PM
Is it possible? Easy or not? Anyone? Here it is:
Based on Mickey's offical do to list, I have come up with some interesting ideas.


It would be useful to keep track of statistics, both for users (confidential information for them alone), as well as collectively. For example, I might like to know how many armies I spent defending a particular city over a period of a few weeks. It might be useful to break it down by date, as well as giving totals. Then for everyone, summary statistics could be given -- how many players spent how many armies fighting over which cities, and so forth.

There could be a bar at the bottom of the software (thinking that we will not use the current Google Earth interface) with tabs. The first tab could be stats. You could search for stats using an online database in a partnership with Google. The bar at the bottom would be called the 'function bar.


any chance that it could be made so that if you captured the majority of population in a given country, then you'd become 'ruler' of the country.

The parts of the country would be highlighted by the user's colour. The tab would also show stats of anything you click on- a moving army, a city, a country and who owns the majority of it, and therefore that person can call upon minority people's armies to defend the country.


How about a "news" page, something that gives a narrative of important changes to the geopolitical situation? Not like journalism; it would be principally statistical, reading like a tickler of events.

There could be a 'News' tab, which would tell you about who attacked who recently, and and archives database- based on Google- to tell when someone attacked.


You could have game stats ping a png overlay file in real-time. Google Earth supports overlays (hud display-esque) and can auto-refresh. Might be nice for a scoreboard or something.

The stats could be put in the stats tab- but this is not a bad idea for a battle. There could be a board on the top right corner of the software telling you the details of an attack or when you had to defend. It could also tell you your current ranking. This would be called the scoreboard.


it would be useful, if the placemark "last attack" would mark the city, what was attacked (like the "you found a jewel" mark marks the jewel) and if you use an other symbol for that. something like a huge skull would be great

This could easily be done with ease without the use of the scoreboard- perhaps in the News Tab (in the function bar), when showing the last city attacked, you could click on a link to the placemark.

The function bar would also have a resources tab, with sub-tabs (tabs in the bar, under the more important tabs) saying the sorts of resources you could buy.


How about intelligence reports that cost jewels? That's basically what spies do, anyway. So if I want to see when a particular user is active, for example -- I mean, I want to be able to have access to reports that show when the person did what -- bought armies, gained jewels, etc. (sysop-type info!), I can. For a price.

This could be under the Military & Intelligence tab. Under (in sub tabs) there could be an intelligence tab, where you can choose from a selection of spies (possibly movie spies- James Bond etc) which would have different capabilities (Speed, Strength, Covertness- I know that's not a real word!, Overall.) and different prices. (nothing too high- perhaps the price of two armies). These spies would have to be good enough to give you a chance of gaining intelligence. Perhaps, under another sub tab- saying guards, you could have guards who protect the information. Your guards versus their spies capability (and vice-versa) would create the ultimate result of whether you get intelligence or not. However, the best sort of guard should be the same price as the best sort of spy.


It'd be class to be able to either train soldiers or buy different types of soldiers, e.g. marines etc, or for example tanks etc. which would enable cities to much more difficult to take over. Obviously these would cost more but it would take proportinately more weaker soldiers to defeat them. Also could experience be training so the longer a group survives the better they become?

This could be in a sub tab under Military and Intelligence in the function bar. Also, the capability of armies would be displayed in stats tab if you ask for it. Based on the overall rating vs the overall rating of another or different type of army, this could determine the result in a battle.


It would be good to hear how many armies attacked, as well. It might even be worth mentioning which armies they were.

This could be under the stats and news tab in the function bar.


It would be nice to trade armies in for Geos. It would also be nice if you'd get .75 Geos per troop, just like it costs to buy them.

This would be under the Marketplace tab in the function bar, in a sub tab called- trade armies. The other sub tabs in Marketplace would be trade assets, trade jewels.


think there should be a "convert all"-button on the convert ressources page so you dont have to enter manually the maximum number into the field.

In the marketplace tab in the function bar.


First the ability to combine armies I still have quite a few seperate armies and woould like to combine them.

This would be under the Military and Intelligence tab, under the Armies sub-tab. Also there would be the oppurtunity to attack a city if you were to do so, or occupy one, or be notified when a city was decontaminated. (the city decontamination one could also be in the news tab) All of these could also appear on the scoreboard- which could pop up to tell you.


In my opinion it is sad when you first enter the GEwar-site and you were told that you`ve been attacked, which city, by whom and if i lost or won but I can`t see the fights. For me it is interesting by many armys/troops Ive been attacked and so on. When I attack sb. the information were given to me, but not to my enemy. On the other hand when Ive been attacked I knew nothing about the fight. Please give the attacked players the possibility to get the statistics.

Stats tab in function bar.


Click an enemy's pup tent, and have a link to attack 'em. Select which army, from where, and that army goes out to intercept and attack 'em, travelling direct to the computed intercept point.

Stats tab, and Armies tab in the function bar.


Diamond Mine in South Africa.

Done already! Can be viewed in resources tab, and stats tab.




Default In-Game Messaging!?
This would be perfect!

We should have the opportunity to communicate with each other before shedding blood of those poor virtual troops

I am tired of renaming my armies in order to communicate with others!...


Hey that can be done. If you can see the latest news you should definetely be able to see when you have a new message. I don't think that should be that hard.

In Game Messaging not suggested in Mickey's sticky to do list, but a very good idea. Possible integration with Google Talk? In a chat tab in the function bar.

Ultimately, I am sure Google would love to give a database or search Google Earth Hacks for stats in GEWar. And they would like to use Google Talk with us because if the game gets big Google Talk becomes more popular. Google would love it because it would be an integration of all of their services. Of course, don't forget, they would want the search bar. Even if Google didn't contribute it could still be done without them. Tell me what you think- please it took ages to write this post!!!

qrnster
08-30-2005, 11:13 PM
Any ideas?

Lukepuuk
08-30-2005, 11:13 PM
wow...this will take me a little time to read :|

qrnster
08-31-2005, 12:00 AM
too many ideas to read at once!!! :lol:

qrnster
08-31-2005, 12:08 AM
if we are to start a partnership with google for in-game messaging, news in GEWar, or anything else, the email is bizdev@google.com. Mickey, what do you think of the whole idea?

Mickey
08-31-2005, 02:10 AM
if we are to start a partnership with google for in-game messaging, news in GEWar, or anything else, the email is bizdev@google.com. Mickey, what do you think of the whole idea?

I like the idea, but I'm not sure how feasible it is. It's one thing to create a game that ties into Google Earth - it's a whole different ballgame to try to create a "new" Google Earth...

qrnster
08-31-2005, 02:14 PM
Currently, if we use Google Earth, we won't be able to use swf's or animations with the current overlays- perhaps GE will launch it in the future but we can't be sure. I mean, of course I have no idea about the difficulty of making a whole new software, but it has to be said that the current GE is not the perfect design for a war game. What I am basically saying is, we take the window with the Earth itself and we take the features of rotating, tilting, zooming in and out and searching for cities, but the rest can be up to us. And Google may very well like the idea as it interacts with all other GE services. Another way is to make a Google Earth skin, but that only comes with GE Plus, which by a large majority, most of us probably don't have.

rasqual
08-31-2005, 03:56 PM
All of this is frightfully important to the future of GE itself. One of its severe limitations is the lack of scripting, plugins, animation and presentation options. Yes, something like flash would be good. Something like a "Power Point" for GE would be great. And being able to do some automation with jscript or somesuch would be awesome. Finally, allowing for third-party plugins seems obligatory. Hello? Firefox, anyone? I mean, seriously. I can add all kind of crap to Microsoft Word -- tons of third party things, and I can code VBA to make it dance and sing. But now we have this rich interface where I can fly the valleys in NE Pakistan, where I can view layers of valuable data and search for Aunt Penelope's house, where I can add live data from third party sources, where I can export my own company's SQL and have it show up as data-modeling extrusions in real time -- but I CAN'T do what I can do in a bloomin' word processor? Hello~?

/rant

Don't sit idly by an wonder whether Google might do something that would alter decisions about where you take the game. Aggressively engage Google and sell the merits of what would improve the game on the basis of how the game is just an instance of what people will be wanting to do with the product once Google makes it a killer app.

It's not there until Google does some of this. Yes, I said it -- GE isn't a killer app until Google does more with it.

Just now, it's merely a maimer app. ;-)

qrnster
08-31-2005, 04:15 PM
I am creating a very nice, very clean looking concept of what the game software would look like. It is very similair to GE itself, but it shows that it is designed as a war game. I'll probably have it done by the end of today (I'm GMT +). Google would love it.

Lukepuuk
08-31-2005, 04:50 PM
Are we still talking about Google Earth War here or a total new game? :whoa:

qrnster
08-31-2005, 05:39 PM
yeah i'm just creating the concept for fun! it's just an image! i don't know anything about programming. It's just I think it would be better to use our own interface then Google Earth's own, though we probably will use Google Earth's own interface.

Mickey
08-31-2005, 05:55 PM
It's just I think it would be better to use our own interface then Google Earth's own, though we probably will use Google Earth's own interface.
I agree with that statement. There would certainly be advantages to using some custom made software, but the time, cost and difficulty rule it out. I can give you a 100% chance that this game will continue to use Google Earth.

qrnster
08-31-2005, 06:01 PM
I'm trying to get my concept up onto imageshack. I can't seem to insert it into this post.

qrnster
08-31-2005, 06:05 PM
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8960/gewar4nw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
That is a hotlink for forums thing that I got from imageshack.
Here is a link if that doesn't work.
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8960/gewar4nw.jpg
ooh good it worked!
hope this doesn't take too much space up in one post mickey.
check it out everyone!

qrnster
08-31-2005, 06:09 PM
EXPLANATION OF ALL BUTTONS AND EVERYTHING:
The GEWAr function and commands bar at the bottom gives you all the buttons you need. When you click on a button, it shows whatever it's supposed to show in the Display Panel. The Scoreboard is like what I was talked.
As you can see, in this, Stats and Last Attack are highlighted. So the last attack details show in the panel. Plus there is a chat button, which will put a google talk interface into the display panel.
There is also a news ticker. You can click on that news and it will appear in the Display Panel with a google news search bar as well.

qrnster
08-31-2005, 06:50 PM
what do you all think?

rasqual
08-31-2005, 07:25 PM
Delete image of game mock-up

LOL

Dude . . .

Not laughing at your ideas, or your art. Just a bizarre juxtaposition. The thought of being able to see reports of an entire metropolis being overthrown by powerful armies, and ALSO being able to toggle for viewing dining establishments on the same screen, is just too funny!

qrnster
08-31-2005, 07:27 PM
it does have a bit of a beta look to it... but I like it. oh yeah i forgot to take out the dining and lodging stuff! woops! but i would keep terrain, buildings and borders. Soz about that. And juxtaposition! Is that really a word!

rasqual
08-31-2005, 07:31 PM
More seriously, though, I think a lot of what you're envisioning is already quite possible. I've been trying to find Mickey's home address so I can come over and park some thermite under his butt until he gets more information, active links and such into his placemark descriptions. These fields could be used to deliver every single piece of information currently offered in the web UI. Perhaps not as nicely, granted -- and Mickey's pointed out that you can't park forms in CDATA -- which is darned sad. DARNED sad.

But I suspect not even thermite would wake Mickey, given as much hard work as is in evidence -- so I'll spare him for now. ;-)

qrnster
08-31-2005, 08:13 PM
We could probably do it (speaking of Google Earth Hacks, not myself!!!), but the first version out of beta would definetely not have the interface. However, over time, we could develop a software. I think, it may be possible to get it done as a flash- but getting the window that shows the Earth onto a fla file will be very hard.

elk-tamer
08-31-2005, 09:38 PM
More seriously, though, I think a lot of what you're envisioning is already quite possible. I've been trying to find Mickey's home address so I can come over and park some thermite under his butt until he gets more information, active links and such into his placemark descriptions. These fields could be used to deliver every single piece of information currently offered in the web UI. Perhaps not as nicely, granted -- and Mickey's pointed out that you can't park forms in CDATA -- which is darned sad. DARNED sad.

But I suspect not even thermite would wake Mickey, given as much hard work as is in evidence -- so I'll spare him for now. ;-)

I've been fiddling around with that sort of thing. I've been used java instead of php though. Using a jession parameter makes communication between kml and html a bit easier.
A good first step towards realizing queynters plans would be to change the links so that the internal browser works.( Or does it only not work for me?)

rasqual
08-31-2005, 11:00 PM
There's an option for using internal or external, in the settings.

I wish GE would let you park the internal on the side, if you want. It's such a waste of vertical screen real estate to have it on the bottom. Either way, the sysop needs to seriously code for the crunch factor, so maybe it's better it couldn't go either way!

Oh -- and I'm gonna rekindle my thermite notion if he doesn't interface with some real-world data soon. It's a simple choice -- invoke low whistles of admiration from a lot of folks (including the Google campus), or run around like a nut with his pants on fire. ;-)

hypeserver
09-01-2005, 12:25 AM
it does seem very possible, but the video feature may not be able to run properly at the moment.

Lukepuuk
09-01-2005, 12:49 AM
But I do think you guys are talking about a totally new game.
I prefer the Google Earth Interface as it really combines reality to the game.
Keeping it simple is sometimes the more addictive way.
I can check the news on countries and zoom in on some good old infrastructure while playing the game.

Like the idea though, but I'll stick to the original idea of having a Google Earth interface and let the website here do the rest.

rasqual
09-01-2005, 01:34 AM
Well, I'm not. There are things I badly want Google to do with GE, but I think this game should be architected entirely within it (until automation or plugins become possible in GE). But Mickey hasn't yet exploted the coolest features of GE. He's been creeping in that direction, but I reckon these things take time. ;-)

elk-tamer
09-01-2005, 05:15 AM
There's an option for using internal or external, in the settings.
I am aware of that. The GE browser doesn't work well with the GE war website though.
What are the changes you want to see?
I'd like at the least to see:
a kml link wherever there's spatial information in the GE War pages.
a link to a GE War page from any placemarks in the GE War kml

qrnster
09-01-2005, 10:52 AM
theres nothing we can do about the first version that comes out of beta- that will certainly be with the Google Earth interface. However, version 6 or something like that- by then we may have had enough time to develop our own software- if we want to, that is.