View Full Version : What has value in the game?

08-31-2005, 04:27 PM
The question's come up a lot, with discussions of how an economy should work out globally, locally, during battles, during commerce, and so forth.

But what really matters?

My take is this: stability. The players who foster, create, and sustain geopolitical/economic stability -- they're the winners.

Is there some collection of metrics which, over the long haul, could help analyze and quantify "stability"?

Roger Andrew
08-31-2005, 04:55 PM
It appears to me that stability comes from war being destructive to the item we are gathering i.e. the city population.

I had suggested that the population decrease due to battles around them, and definitely huge reductions from Nuclear Attack. If the dynamic was that the population gets reduced by war, then stability could be allowed to increase the population.
Without a small Geos/MM population (say 0.04Geos per day perMM) there is no real impetus to try and retain control, and the only fun is Nuking and destroying armies .... a "risky" game at best.

08-31-2005, 05:50 PM
Is there some collection of metrics which, over the long haul, could help analyze and quantify "stability"?
Hmmmmm....measuring stabilty would be interesting. Especially considering that war makes stabilty tough.

I guess you could look at some of the more stable economies in the world and determine what they have in common with one another. Then you can try to work those aspects into the game somehow.

I will ponder this a bit.

08-31-2005, 07:45 PM
If this game showcases warfare, what factors deter or discourage aggression?

Another way stability could come would be by adequate defense of one's borders. This shows that overwhelming power -- needed for that -- could not only create instability (raging about conquering everything) but could have quite the opposite effect, depending entirely on the will of the player.

Motives. Intentions. What makes one a "winner" in the game? Is it merely possession of territory? At any moment, that territory could turn over to someone else.

It seems to me that someone who has held 100 units of good territory for a month, is more of a winner than someone who, in the last couple days, merely happens to have come into possession of a total 200 units of good territory.

There are some profound questions, Mickey, that you're going to have to answer, and really they're not much different than classic life questions -- what's the summum bonum, the bonavita, and what promotes the common weal while providing for personal fulfillment?

It seems to me that since there are no individuals in this world -- there are only aggregate societies, armies, and what-not -- the world predominantly model communitaraian values. That's all there is to value! This is not to say that in the real world that's all there is, but this world has limits to what can be modeled. There's just no room for individualism in this world -- unless we wish to account for the leaders who rule their societies. But that makes little sense, because only huge, society-affecting choices are in the game's world itself -- the players merely make decisions that determine those societies' fates.

Blah, blah, blah. But it's actually some fundamentally important stuff.

Roger Andrew
09-02-2005, 08:08 PM
You have to have more fundemental downsides to wars, battles, nukes.

I keep geting drawn back to population decreases by war and increase by peace (and economy); otherwise we are solely drawn into the fun of destruction, revenge and anarchy; and eventually will tire and pass on the game to the more energetic youth - for the long term interest i'll need a piece of cerebral interest, currently supplied by the back-room chatter and dealing.... but for how long?

I also play Emperor for relaxation!

09-05-2005, 06:49 AM
Agreed. War must destroy value, and peace should increase it. This is why I'm convinced W_P is stoned out of his gourd ;-) for imagining that war can issue into abundant plunder and endless tax revenues. This guy would try to wring Shiraz out of desiccant, I swear. ;-)

09-05-2005, 07:10 AM

Yeah, I totally agree Rasqual! :)


Roger Andrew
09-06-2005, 01:05 PM
W_P works so hard at mining Armies: maybe he's looking long term at a job offer from Google - what is the going rate per hour for Turkish Delights?