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War_Peace
09-11-2005, 04:39 PM
"Melbourne is the capital and largest city of the state of Victoria, and the second largest city in Australia (after Sydney), with a population of 3,600,650 in the Melbourne metropolitan area (June 2004) and 61,670 in the City of Melbourne" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne

Wouldn't it be more sensible to set the city value of Melborne as 3,600,650 rather than 61,670??

I mean, Sydney would be 146,297 with this point of view...

"With a metropolitan area population of 4.3(3,879,400 in game) million and a population of approximately 146,297 people in the city proper (known as the "City of Sydney"), the Sydney metropolis is the larger of the two main financial, transport, trade and cultural centres of Australia"

There are a few more cities like so...

Corporal
09-11-2005, 04:46 PM
I'd say go with the metropolitain area. You wouldn't judge the population of New York City just by the population of Manhattan or Brooklyn now would you?

War_Peace
09-11-2005, 04:48 PM
You are saying what I am saying and don't even know it! How nice is that?!

In fact, I made some more research and saw that some values are the highest number possible and some of them are smallest number possible. I say, let's edit them in the way that they will take the max number available.

4,300,000 for Sydney
3,600,650 for Melbourne(61,670 in game!!)
17,110,000 for Shanghai
14,560,000 for Beijing (this is the same in the game)
14,000,000 for Tehran
19,190,115 for New York
5,800,000 for Boston (589,141 in game!!)
and so on...

Mickey
09-11-2005, 06:00 PM
For the sake of consistency, I've tried to always use the city proper numbers, not the metro area numbers. If I'm off on any from that angle, please point them out and I'll fix them.

War_Peace
09-11-2005, 06:33 PM
I am not saying do it now but when u have time(just changing that number wouldn't take that much of a time) change all those values using the largest numbers provided by wikipedia...
There are 92 cities right now and it would be fair to check them and edit them in time...
"Not talking about metro population or city proper, it would be good to use the largest numbers available. Some may belong to year 2000 and others may be from '05 but again, the largest numbers would be easy to catch and fun to use..."

Corporal
09-11-2005, 06:57 PM
For the sake of consistency, I've tried to always use the city proper numbers, not the metro area numbers. If I'm off on any from that angle, please point them out and I'll fix them.

Well the thing is, "metro area" includes all of the people that have congregated around the city to make a living, including its suburbs. "City proper" is just some historical/arbitrary boundary for the city, and may or may not be where most of the people in the city live. For example, Rio de Janeiro has a city proper population of 6,150,000 [same as in-game] and a metro area of 10-13 million because a lot of poor people decided to move to the city and ended up stuck in slums that were within the city proper boundaries, whereas Boston's city proper is 589,141 with a metro area of 5.8 million because the people who live there are better off and can afford to live in suburbs outside of the city proper.

Though, the best way to value cities would be some kind of algorithm that compares how rich the city is overall to the population of the city [thus, L.A. should be more valuable than Delhi, India in this way] - Kind of like culture in Civ3, except culture is a bit more difficult to determine. Most cities could be ranked in this way fairly easily if the ranks were "Poor, Average, Rich". Still quite a bit of research involved though.

War_Peace
09-11-2005, 07:06 PM
Solution is simple,
You have 2 options to choose:
1.) Go with the easy way and use the largest numbers available in wiki...
2.) Go with the hard and complicated way and use that algorithm thang :) :P

Either way, the result will be good...

Corporal
09-11-2005, 08:35 PM
Also, capital cities should be worth a little bit more.

tupac_shakur
09-11-2005, 08:59 PM
my city is in Wikipedia
Catanduva is a municipality in the state of São Paulo in Brazil. Its coordinates are 21°08′16″ S 48°58′22″ W. The population in 2004 is 113,578 and the area is 2935.6 km² The elevation is 503 m. It is all correct

Volli82
09-11-2005, 09:18 PM
i dont understand the number of paris, in game 2.142.800. but paris is much more bigger than berlin. paris is nearly as big as london.

Corporal
09-11-2005, 09:38 PM
i dont understand the number of paris, in game 2.142.800. but paris is much more bigger than berlin. paris is nearly as big as london.

According to Wikipedia, these are the populations for metropolitan areas and city propers:

Paris, France - 11,174,743 [2,125,246 city proper]
London, UK - 7,421,228 [No info on metropolitan area vs. city proper]
Berlin, Germany - 3,390,444 [No info on metropolitan area vs. city proper]

So, it'll be a bit iffy for cities where there's no info on whether their populations are for the city proper or metro area. But since most cities' importance and populations are determined by the metro area rather than the city proper, we should go by that instead. [Boston being repeated as a good example; its city proper alone is 589,141 - Twice as much as the metro area of my current residence of Roanoke, Virginia; but obviously many times more important than that overall.]

Mickey
09-13-2005, 12:59 AM
Ok, all of the cities mentioned in this thread have been updated with their metro numbers rather than just city proper. If you have others, please post them in here and I'll get them updated.

Corporal
09-13-2005, 01:07 AM
Thank you, good sir ^_^

Edit: whoa them's some big anime eyes. @_@

Edit2: Also, LA's numbers should be changed to reflect those of Boston's. New York's too: 17,545,623 and 22 million, respectively.

You may have to change the algorithm for city width a bit later...

tukamotton
09-13-2005, 01:10 AM
This city reach 18,131,000 Pop. ( http://worldatlas.com/citypops.htm ) including metropolitan area.

Tokyo would be the #1 with 28,025,000

Corporal
09-13-2005, 01:14 AM
The population you're referring to for Tokyo is the "megacity" from Tokyo to Osaka, which is analogous to the megacity area from Boston to Washington, D.C. Tokyo's actual metro population is 12 million people, the same as in-game.

tupac_shakur
09-13-2005, 01:17 AM
ok man more one city of Brazil....
São José do Rio Preto is a city and county (município) in the State of São Paulo, Brazil. County Area: 434.10 square km; population (2004): approx. 400,000.

The city was founded on March 19 1852, by Bernardino de Seixas Ribeiro. It is the commercial, industrial, and agricultural center of the Northwestern region of the State. It also hosts a major campus of the State University of São Paulo (UNESP).

Corporal
09-13-2005, 01:20 AM
Edit2: Also, LA's numbers should be changed to reflect those of Boston's. New York's too: 17,545,623 and 22 million, respectively.

WHOA, nevermind the thing about changing NY's population; I thought it was less than it was in-game because the triangles make cities look bigger... >_>

You might want to change the triangles to something less misleading, like a pentagon.

Edit: But! 'Frisco needs to be changed. 7 million.

Mickey
09-13-2005, 02:51 AM
All requested cities now updated. Again, please post more as you see them.


the triangles make cities look bigger... >_>

You might want to change the triangles to something less misleading, like a pentagon.

I just made all of the polygons smaller, and then made the triangles just a bit smaller than that to help. Thoughts?

elk-tamer
09-13-2005, 04:41 AM
So I'm no longer #1 due to admin changes? I love it! Time to edit the script.

Volli82
09-13-2005, 07:04 AM
This city reach 18,131,000 Pop. ( http://worldatlas.com/citypops.htm ) including metropolitan area.

Tokyo would be the #1 with 28,025,000

on some sites you can read that tokyo got over 40.000.000

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 11:54 AM
Athens, Greece is a fine example.
45% of the whole Greece population lives their and it belongs with one of the largest cities in Europe.
Just 750,001 would be shamefull for the Greek people ;)
The city itself without suburbs if way bigger then Hamburg, Germany.

The strange thing is, Mickey, you had Amsterdam quite right. Not completely because from this year they had a little above a million, but close enough.

"Athens Population – 3,103,000 (Source: UN Population Division 2000 estimate) "(all runned by 1 Mayor)
This is without the suburbs, because the metropolitan area is:
"The metropolitan area of Athens is home to some 5 million people. Currently the city (metropolitan area) is growing eastwards across Attica (Attika: greater Athens)."

As far as I can find the district of Athens allready hold that 750,000 people.
So the real number for Athens without suburbs would be 3,103,000.

Mickey, is there not a way to get the real numbers of cities without just getting the district or the metropolian area(which are both 2 of extremes, 1 low and 1 too high)?

Graet work for the rest, keep it up

ps: also good to see Melbourne change by size. Family lives there and I know what an enormous city it is.

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 12:18 PM
At the other hand...as I'm currently occupying Athens...if it stays low maybe people will leave me alone there ;)

CalabreseBoy
09-13-2005, 12:22 PM
lol i was controlling my home city of melbourne, australia - it's value was like 61,000 and i had been attacke dmaybe once or twice - then after it was updated to over 3 million - i got attacked like 6 times within 1/2 hour and then ended up getting nuked - amazing what a population value does a to a city...........

CalabreseBoy
09-13-2005, 12:25 PM
and the worst thing about it is that it got nuked by someone who owned NO cities, this is a serious issue, people getting their cities nuked by people who bouht nukes before the two city rule came in....and therefore retained them, being able to attack people at will, i really think that anyone who has nukes and not two cities should be stripped of them, no matter when you bought them

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 12:28 PM
Yeah I immediately bought a nuke shield. Occupying Athens is my main interest so I want to keep it.
But I believe that it would soon be implemented in the game that you would lose your nukes if you have less then 2 cities...but I can be wrong here.

Corporal
09-13-2005, 08:57 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_European_metropolitan_areas

Moscow - 13,600,000
London - 11,850,000
Istanbul - 11,332,000
Madrid - 5,600,000
Berlin - 4,200,000
Hamburg - 4,000,000
Rome - 3,800,000
Athens - 3,500,000
Kiev - 3,200,000
Budapest - 2,550,000
Warsaw - 2,400,000
Munich- 1,925,000
Vienna - 1,850,000
Stockholm - 1,700,000
Helsinki - 1,225,000
Copenhagen - 1,100,000
Oslo - 1,090,012

There's a few megacities in there too. I'd say make the most important city in each megacity represent all the cities in the area, since all of the cities are important indivicually but are too close together to justify being individual cities in-game.

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 09:16 PM
Mickey, isn't Manhattan in New York City also part of the 'metropolitan' area?

Corporal
09-13-2005, 09:23 PM
Mickey, isn't Manhattan in New York City also part of the 'metropolitan' area?

It's already included in the numbers.

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 09:30 PM
That is exactly what I mean. If New York City's numbers are including the metropolitan area, then shouldn't other cities have that as well? Just a thought.

Corporal
09-13-2005, 09:34 PM
That is exactly what I mean. If New York City's numbers are including the metropolitan area, then shouldn't other cities have that as well? Just a thought.

That's what I mean. Manhattan isn't a "city", it's a district of New York.

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 09:42 PM
That's what I mean. Manhattan isn't a "city", it's a district of New York.

I know, thats what I said :cool:

Corporal
09-13-2005, 11:23 PM
Lima - 14,000,000
Buenos Aires - 12,000,000
Bogota - 8,500,000
Caracas - 5,100,000

patrickf
09-14-2005, 11:08 AM
Just a quick query, you've got a population for Belfast of 550,000 but only 495,000. I see your using the Greater Belfast popluation rather than the city but shouldnt that give Dublin a population of 1,164,400?!

Ta

Paddy

War_Peace
09-14-2005, 08:14 PM
Istanbul - Tehran - Cairo

They all have a population of 15Million each...

New York is: 21M which is nice but it is a known fact that Istanbul has a close population to that number (I am living there!) Most people say that Istanbul has already passed 20M... I am not sure about that but 15 Million is certain for those three cities...

It would be nice to set Istanbul as 17,500,000 and even nicer to set as 20,000,000 but it's your call...

Mickey
09-16-2005, 02:07 PM
Just a quick query, you've got a population for Belfast of 550,000 but only 495,000. I see your using the Greater Belfast popluation rather than the city but shouldnt that give Dublin a population of 1,164,400?!

You are correct. It's fixed now.

Mickey
09-16-2005, 02:10 PM
Istanbul - Tehran - Cairo

They all have a population of 15Million each...

I didn't find that high of a number for all of the, but they've all been raised substantially.

War_Peace
09-16-2005, 02:22 PM
I didn't find that high of a number for all of the, but they've all been raised substantially.

For Istanbul, "Its 2000 Census population is 8,803,468 (city proper) and 10,018,735 (metropolitan area), making it, by some counts, one of the largest cities in Europe. Census bureau estimate of 7/20/2005 is 11,322,000 for the city proper"

The formula is: (10,018,735 / 8,803,468) x 11,322,000 : 12,884,935

Since they gave out a number of "11,322,000" for the year 2005

Not that of a big deal but, that is correct yeah?

Thanks for the others...

Mickey
09-16-2005, 03:19 PM
The formula is: (10,018,735 / 8,803,468) x 11,322,000 : 12,884,935

Fair enough. Done.

Volli82
09-16-2005, 08:14 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_European_metropolitan_areas

Moscow - 13,600,000
London - 11,850,000
Istanbul - 11,332,000
Madrid - 5,600,000
Berlin - 4,200,000
Hamburg - 4,000,000
Rome - 3,800,000
Athens - 3,500,000
Kiev - 3,200,000
Budapest - 2,550,000
Warsaw - 2,400,000
Munich- 1,925,000
Vienna - 1,850,000
Stockholm - 1,700,000
Helsinki - 1,225,000
Copenhagen - 1,100,000
Oslo - 1,090,012

There's a few megacities in there too. I'd say make the most important city in each megacity represent all the cities in the area, since all of the cities are important indivicually but are too close together to justify being individual cities in-game.


hamburg never got 4 million. ive lived there for a couple of years. 1,7 is right

War_Peace
09-16-2005, 08:37 PM
Take it easy man :)

tupac_shakur
09-21-2005, 12:00 AM
Belo Horizonte,Brazil=2,091,448
Manaus,Brazil=1,157,357
Araçatuba,Brazil=162,577
Campinas,Brazil=908,906
Recife,Brazil=1,346,045
Belém,Brazil=1,144,312
ok add this cities !!!!

Beezer
09-21-2005, 12:06 AM
Belo Horizonte,Brazil=2,091,448
Manaus,Brazil=1,157,357
Araçatuba,Brazil=162,577
Campinas,Brazil=908,906
Recife,Brazil=1,346,045
Belém,Brazil=1,144,312
ok add this cities !!!!
Post each in an individual thread. Helps me keep track of which ones I've added already.