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Mickey
09-13-2005, 05:33 PM
To offset your newly found tax revenue (http://www.googleearthhacks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2307), your armies now cost money to maintain.

By viewing the details of one of your armies, you can see what it's daily cost will be. I have worked it out so that the value fluctuates, based on how many troops are out there. At the present time, there is more money coming in from tax revenue than there is going out for army expenses, but it's fairly close.

At the present time, nothing happens if you run out of money - it will just go negative. Of course, that prevents you from purchasing new armies/troops, but it's not necessarily the way I want to do it. The problem is that some people may find themselves WAY in the hole (if they leave for a few weeks with a large army at their home base, for example) and then quitting. I'll be working on that shortly.

Stanley
09-13-2005, 05:36 PM
Can we get totals of how much our upkeep vs how much our income for cities is? on the same note, can we get how much our wells/mines/fields make per day?

Mickey
09-13-2005, 05:38 PM
One page that sums everything up? Great idea. It'll take me a little while, but I'll try to get that put together.

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 05:44 PM
Hmmm, how about just a maximum negative?
Like they can't go beneath a 150-200 geos or something?

But after these taxes we might be in need of some extra resources or have inactive resources be swept off the board.
At this time i'm paying about 25Geo's a day for armies and getting 3.84Geo's for the city I'm holding.
SO to equal it out I should be buying more mines and plants(can't find any spot there anymore).

elk-tamer
09-13-2005, 06:11 PM
At the present time, there is more money coming in from tax revenue than there is going out for army expenses, but it's fairly close.

So that means they are approx. 6 million troops in the game?

Mickey
09-13-2005, 06:20 PM
So that means they are approx. 6 million troops in the game?
Actually, about 3.4 million.

I have it set so that the total army upkeep costs will hover around 1000 Geos per day. As more troops are created, the cost per troop will drop. The exact cost per troop is recalculated every five minutes. Specifically, it's (3.5 / TOTALTROOPS), because 3.5 Geos every five minutes equals 42 an hour, or around 1008 Geos per day.

The income for cities is a fixed number per value. This means that as we add more cities, the total income from those will rise. Right now, cities generate around 1500 Geos per day, but that number will rise as more cities are created.

Mickey
09-13-2005, 07:20 PM
Here is the brand new financial overview (http://www.googleearthhacks.com/war/financialoverview.php) page. It's not linked on the main site yet, because it may be a bit buggy. Check it out and let me know if you see any errors. I still want to tidy it up a bit, but I think the numbers should be accurate.

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 07:30 PM
Just an idea....I know you worked hard today :P but could you also put a total for armies on it?

Mickey
09-13-2005, 07:45 PM
but could you also put a total for armies on it?

What do you mean? It lists each army you own, the number of troops in each one, and the cost of each one. What info are you looking for?

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 07:49 PM
I was reading it crosseyed. I forgot that our only expense at this moment IS the army tax.
So 'Total Expense' already covered that one.
My bad.

aravan
09-13-2005, 07:52 PM
The financial page is a great idea. And it looks great!
I do agree that we need to have more resources or is the goal to keep everyone collecting jewels as the main source of income? With the way the cities change owners it will be hard to maintain my expense versus income ratio without a higher level of jewel hunting.

Mickey
09-13-2005, 08:13 PM
The financial page is a great idea. And it looks great!
Thanks.


I do agree that we need to have more resources or is the goal to keep everyone collecting jewels as the main source of income?
I'm trying to make it so people don't have to hunt jewels for money - they can get enough with cities, oil, etc.

Should I allow more oil wells / cotton fields / etc? It's a very easy move for me to allow them to be packed in more tightly. At the same time, I don't want it to be too easy to make money...

aravan
09-13-2005, 08:19 PM
Should I allow more oil wells / cotton fields / etc? It's a very easy move for me to allow them to be packed in more tightly. At the same time, I don't want it to be too easy to make money...

My vote would be to allow more. I think there are enough users and the ability to only purchase 1 every 24 hours kind of evens everything out. I think it would be hard for anyone to gain too much of an advantage.

Lukepuuk
09-13-2005, 08:38 PM
Yes, believe me...I'm talking through private messages with other users who just can't seem to build an army because they don't have the time some other players have hunting for jewels.
The ones with more time should be rewarded, but the players with less time should have a chance at least at some Geo's.
So being able for everybody to buy a oil well, a cotton plant and a diamond mine every day should be stimulating them to play more.

elk-tamer
09-13-2005, 08:59 PM
Yes, believe me...I'm talking through private messages with other users who just can't seem to build an army because they don't have the time some other players have hunting for jewels.
The ones with more time should be rewarded, but the players with less time should have a chance at least at some Geo's.
So being able for everybody to buy a oil well, a cotton plant and a diamond mine every day should be stimulating them to play more.

I'd prefer that the generation of Geos be the result of strategy, not labour. If the resouces had to be attended to, and produced more or less based on the choices made about them, money could be generated without making it too easy. I don't know anything about diamond mines, but there's a ton of things that could be done for oil wells and cotton fields to make their production realistic.

patrickf
09-13-2005, 10:19 PM
There's definitely more potential in generating geos and i agree it must be made flexible enough so those with time and thse without can both benefit. I must admit collecting jewels is boring as hell but **** its fast at acquiring geos and i just have to make time for it!

Quick point, at the minute i assume it costs the same for maintaining armies regardless where they are? Maybe it should cost less at base camp as thats the only permanent home and hence your resources(food water etc.) should be easier to manage here. If they're in a city it should possibly cost a little more as its less permenant but at least its a more resourceful area, but when they're camped outside a city it would be harder to maintain as resources wold obviously have to come from further afield? Just a slight realism point possibly?

I'm sure there is room to explore this further. Just throwing it in the melting pot :cool:

War_Peace
09-13-2005, 10:21 PM
When I said, "provide more equality for everyone" I was accused of being a communist... It is really funny that now people can see that I was right all along...

Give a chance to everyone but reward the ones that work hard(also strategic abilities should also be rewarded) Wells, mines and fields should not be increased in amount(GE crashes because of tense .kml files) but the exchange rates may increase...

That "brand new" :) finance page is just great!... However, http://www.googleearthhacks.com/war/financialoverview.php does not exist in the gewar page... Why?...

Mickey
09-14-2005, 02:35 AM
Wells, mines and fields should not be increased in amount(GE crashes because of tense .kml files) but the exchange rates may increase...
Whenever I'm looking to build a new mine/well/etc, I turn off all other KML files and it doesn't have a problem.


That "brand new" :) finance page is just great!... However, http://www.googleearthhacks.com/war/financialoverview.php does not exist in the gewar page... Why?...
Thanks - I'm glad you like it! I was keeping it semi-quiet to see what people thought of it, but it's live on the game pages now.

Brendo
09-14-2005, 02:46 AM
... but it's live on the game pages now.

Yeah!!! I like it Mickey. It is set out well.

War_Peace
09-14-2005, 10:29 AM
Whenever I'm looking to build a new mine/well/etc, I turn off all other KML files and it doesn't have a problem.


Everyone says the same thing but that is not an option! Of course, I use only one .KML file at a time. But because of so many mines/wells/fields in it, the main GE software can crash easily...

Mickey
09-14-2005, 08:28 PM
I have now set a limit of -50 Geos. If you hit that point, you won't go any lower.

Obviously, a better solution would be to depreciate armies as the funds go negative, but that will take some planning. This stopgap should help prevent people from going excessively broke and giving up.

War_Peace
09-19-2005, 12:15 AM
100 troops, which costs around 0.09 Geos per day

First it was 0.03 Geos,
Then 0.055 Geos,
Then 0.7 Geos,
And now 0.09 Geos! Ohh maaan!...

Mickey
09-19-2005, 12:23 AM
100 troops, which costs around 0.09 Geos per day

First it was 0.03 Geos,
Then 0.055 Geos,
Then 0.7 Geos,
And now 0.09 Geos! Ohh maaan!...

That would be due to the fact that there are fewer troops out there, since all of the ill-gained ones have been removed. As more troops are added, the rate will go down - at least for a while.

War_Peace
09-19-2005, 12:27 AM
Buy troops **** it! :)

All of youuuu!......

I know that you are eating some sweet interests!! Grrrrrr... :)

anthonywitt
09-19-2005, 12:32 AM
It costs a vast amount of money to upkeep armies and there is no way around that cost. On the other hand troops get paid to be in the military. Could this be a suggestion?

Mickey
09-19-2005, 12:50 AM
It costs a vast amount of money to upkeep armies and there is no way around that cost.
No - it costs a vast amount of money to upkeep large armies. :)


On the other hand troops get paid to be in the military. Could this be a suggestion?
Exactly - the troops get paid. Their owner (you) has to pay them...

Cato
09-19-2005, 10:18 PM
When a player's funds are depleted, and he has existing armies for which he still has to pay maintence, a simple way to avoid his geos going negative would be to simply subtract troops from his armies. The amount of troops taken away could just reflect the conversion rate for geos to troops (0.075 geos per troop, or whatever it is).

Lots of games (like civ3) have this effect when you run out of money but still have to pay maintenance for buildings and armies and such. A real-world explanation for this could be that these troops defected due to lack of pay, or even died due to lack of food and supplies.

I'm not sure how the game would decide which army to subtract troops from, but (if this suggestion seems reasonable), you guys can comtemplate that.

I really think that this would solve the problem of depleted funds and army maintenance. I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, so i figured id just throw it out there.

rasqual
09-20-2005, 12:55 AM
Deserters!

LOL

Well, that could be part of the "morale engine" as well. A commander short of funds could make his troops miserable in other, psychotic ways (inspiring mass desertions) to avoid the embarrassment of them discovering the paymaster's too broke to pay 'em.

birq
09-20-2005, 01:33 AM
Well, that could be part of the "morale engine" as well.

And the person that holds Las Vegas gets a morale bonus. :)

araT
09-20-2005, 03:07 AM
Deserters!

LOL

Well, that could be part of the "morale engine" as well. A commander short of funds could make his troops miserable in other, psychotic ways (inspiring mass desertions) to avoid the embarrassment of them discovering the paymaster's too broke to pay 'em.

hahahaha sounds good to me, can we just torture them if we have had a craptastic day and need to vent on someone? personally i'd like to take them on a slow stroll through the Sahara :lol: :angel:

T.

RossumsChild
09-20-2005, 04:15 PM
The problem is that some people may find themselves WAY in the hole (if they leave for a few weeks with a large army at their home base, for example) and then quitting. I'll be working on that shortly.

Not to nitpick. . .but doesn't that kindof accurately simulate the "revolution" that a city would face if so much money were spent on materiel that the city suffered a major economic collapse?

[grin]