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Mickey
09-14-2005, 03:22 AM
Geos aside, I'm looking for suggestions as to how this game could generate a little bit of real cash. I'm not looking to become a millionaire (although I wouldn't mind... :)), but I'm already looking at needing another server to help support the game if it keeps growing at it's current rate.

A few thoughts I have already:

- Not based on donations. While that would help, I'd hate to be constantly begging for money.
- No required fee. That would essentially kill the game. It's fun, but I doubt many people would pay to play.
- Ads wouldn't really work. The ads on the main GEH site help a bit, but they wouldn't work too well in GEwar. For one thing, I'll be pushing more and more toward a GE only interface (no web required). Also, banner ads don't do well on online games, due to the very high pageview/visitor ratio.

So what's that leave? I'm not sure. I'd love to develop something where people would want to pay a small fee ($5/month? $20/year?) to play, but people wouldn't be forced to pay.

We've got time to work this out, but I'm just trying to look toward the future and I can't quite see it...

birq
09-14-2005, 03:35 AM
How about a "premium" service of some sort? Features you can only access if you're a subscriber? I don't know, maybe more natural resources (3 each at any given time for a non-subscriber, for example)?

rasqual
09-14-2005, 03:46 AM
Well, you know what I say -- include real-world data in the game.

Players who pay would have genuine advantages in the game.

;-)

Seriously. If you make the price for playing within most people's reach -- well, bone up on your Laffer curve economics. ;-)

How about something like this -- payers would lack these restrictions which would be in place on noobs:

- no nukes, ever (no matter how successful you are as a noob, you'll never be able to possess that strategic deterent)
- a limit on jewels per day (ah, there's the rub)

And that's it.

The idea wouldn't be to be draconian, it would be to just gently get folks to consider that your reasonable subscription fee would be well worth it.

But dude, you have to scale. Among other things, I suggest you urge various authoritative information banks to not only geotag, but offer km* and web services you can exploit to help you scale things like your city enumeration. You can't add cities manually. Indeed, in an ideal world all the cities in the world would be there, and people could pick Podunk IA if they wanted to. It'd have to be a source of such information that includes data you'd want concerning the town. It'd sure be nice if the Wiki were fully cool in this regard, already.

Well, good luck. I don't think I'll have time to be a serious player A.B. (after beta), but I'd still chip in for a subscription, I think. Just remember the Laffer curve. It's your friend for this kind of thing. ;-)

P.S. -- my thought is this -- just as the free version of Earth makes it possible for anyone to enjoy the predominant, cool aspects of it without paying, I think your game should afford people that option as well, but the combination of merely irritating restrictions and low entry price point would inspire little more than a shrug as they pointed their mouse toward the Paypal button.

Mickey
09-14-2005, 03:53 AM
Well, you know what I say -- include real-world data in the game.

Players who pay would have genuine advantages in the game.
I had been shying away from that, but maybe it's the way to go.


Seriously. If you make the price for playing within most people's reach -- well, bone up on your Laffer curve economics.
Ugh... :)


How about something like this -- payers would lack these restrictions which would be in place on noobs:

- no nukes, ever (no matter how successful you are as a noob, you'll never be able to possess that strategic deterent)
- a limit on jewels per day (ah, there's the rub)

And that's it.
Interesting thoughts. Maybe it really is that simple...


But dude, you have to scale. Among other things, I suggest you urge various authoritative information banks to not only geotag, but offer km* and web services you can exploit to help you scale things like your city enumeration. You can't add cities manually. Indeed, in an ideal world all the cities in the world would be there, and people could pick Podunk IA if they wanted to. It'd have to be a source of such information that includes data you'd want concerning the town. It'd sure be nice if the Wiki were fully cool in this regard, already.
Agreed on all points.


Well, good luck. I don't think I'll have time to be a serious player A.B. (after beta), but I'd still chip in for a subscription, I think.
At least stick around through beta, as you offer a viewpoint no one else can offer.


just as the free version of Earth makes it possible for anyone to enjoy the predominant, cool aspects of it without paying, I think your game should afford people that option as well, but the combination of merely irritating restrictions and low entry price point would inspire little more than a shrug as they pointed their mouse toward the Paypal button.
That's exactly what I want to do. Finding the options and price point might be a little tricky, but it'll all work out.

First thing I need to do is get back to work on the game itself so that it might eventually come out of beta someday. :)

birq
09-14-2005, 04:05 AM
bone up on your Laffer curve economics. ;-)

I think it's more a matter of price elasticity. And I sure wouldn't want to have to figure out how to calculate that for this kind of demographic spread. Best guess, Mickey! :)

birq
09-14-2005, 04:20 AM
Ooh, I just had a thought! What about a corporate sponsorship? Instead of Geos, people pay with McGeos and collect Mobil Oil, Cotton The Fabric of our Lives and DeBeers Diamonds.

Brendo
09-14-2005, 04:21 AM
Ooh, I just had a thought! What about a corporate sponsorship? Instead of Geos, people pay with McGeos and collect Mobil Oil, Cotton The Fabric of our Lives and DeBeers Diamonds.

Sponsors, I like that idea. I am willing to contribute though.

rasqual
09-14-2005, 05:36 AM
Ooh, I just had a thought! What about a corporate sponsorship? Instead of Geos, people pay with McGeos and collect Mobil Oil, Cotton The Fabric of our Lives and DeBeers Diamonds.LOL!

Product placement, too. You zoom in on SE Minnesota to nail a jewel, and a placemark icon mysteriously redolent of SPAM looms in the periphery of your field of vision. Ah! Hormel! ;-)

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 11:58 AM
Paying for priviliges...thats not bad.
Either way, count me in. As we are all playing there's no sense in letting Mickey pay for us all.

anthonywitt
09-14-2005, 12:22 PM
Mickey you have the basic game and it should remain free. This point attracts new players.

The extras should come at a price. Such as the upcoming additions you speak of. It would play like a hosted web site and sub domain name. People pay for the right to move from a sub to full owner ship of a web site. This has been a money maker for years or it wouldnt be happening.

You could also ask for donations (shares) to support your server needs. When the needs are met then the shares would stop. Hey I would like to have part of this game. This game is only going to grow and I would like to be part of something big besides this **** war in Afghanisan.


Thirty day free trial. I think players would be hooked, maybe not all but I think the members would grow and grow and grow. Look how fast it has grown. I can see it now. Does Yahoo ring a bell?


I think shares are the answer for your server issues at this time.

partin
09-14-2005, 12:27 PM
as you do these,google company will ask you to paid them

partin
09-14-2005, 12:38 PM
In my opinion ,mickey can sell the geos, example, $20 = 2000geos...(or $20=500geos)
and these do not affect other free players . Someone ,like war_peace ,can paid $200 or $2000 to Mickey ,and then bought 100,000000troops to attack all of other players, send to every city...

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 01:23 PM
In my opinion ,mickey can sell the geos, example, $20 = 2000geos...(or $20=500geos)

I'd rather pay just to help or pay for extra priviliges then pay for Geo's.
I can find those myself.
500Geo's is easy within an hour.

anthonywitt
09-14-2005, 02:01 PM
Geos should never be bought. Hunting Geos keeps the game with in the realm of fairness. Pay an annual few for the privlage of being able to but the whistles and bells of warfair such as tanks, missles, mortors or whatever else Mikey comes up with. The fee should allow you to buy but you would still hunt jewels for the resorces to purchase game peices. Well...?

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 02:19 PM
Yes, but not time after time again...or players who are willing to pay but don't have the money some have, would always be in the disadvantage.
Make it a 6 month period orso where the ones that pay just have a little advantage over the ones that don't.
That way it will be more fun for the players who pay, but the ones that don't can still have fun here.
After all, the paying part should be an honorary thing too. Place the name 'donor' (:P) or something between tags after their name.

Mickey
09-14-2005, 02:45 PM
as you do these,google company will ask you to paid them
Google is making a good bit off the ads on the main site, I'm sure.


Place the name 'donor' or something between tags after their name.
I was thinking about that - should it be private or public information? If it's public, it might make you more of a target. Still, I would want to reward people who contribute so I don't know...

vBulletin (this message board software) has some great built-in tools for handling subscriptions through PayPal. The way I'd like to do it is create a special usergroup on the boards ("paid gewar players" or something) which vBulletin will assign to you if you've paid. Then, in the game, I can simply check to see if you're a member of that group or not and allow certain privledges if you are.

Again, this is some distance away, but I appreicate all of the input so far.

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 03:06 PM
I think the honorary system outwages the things you get in return.
I would make it public.
Maybe you can make the home base of paid users a little higher or impossible to attack. That should give users that little push too pay.

And ofcourse...a paid users account is never deleted, not even if he goes away for 2 months. But that would be natural ofcourse.

aravan
09-14-2005, 06:31 PM
Mickey,

I think there are several really good points in this thread. I think most sites are supported financially one of three ways, donations, subscriptions or advertising. My opinion is the site should be kept free with the option for premium subscription services (something that could be determined later - there were some good ideas posted already). I also think that the game should be limited in the maximum number of players, however. By doing this you somewhat limit the amount of server space that you will need. And, if the ads thing doesnt sound appealing I'd always let people donate freely if they so desired. The game has been a blast so far and watching it develop has been fun. I'd like to see it stay around.

p.s. The way Stanley scripts I think you ought to enlist his services to help you make some of the changes/updates you are wanting. On the other hand, sleep deprivation could make for some interesting coding later on...

Mickey
09-14-2005, 06:35 PM
One other thought I just had is maybe to charge for certain upgrades:

- Want to be able to get nukes? $3
- Want your armies to travel 20% faster? $5
- etc.

Or would it be better to charge a single fee for all of the upgrades?

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 06:43 PM
Steps from 5dollar-10dollar-15dollar and 20dollar to have it all?
Don't know about the rest but I would pay the maximum.
How about for the 20dollar you would get to make goldmines?
And ofcourse the nukes, faster armies...and a nice future idea?

War_Peace
09-14-2005, 06:51 PM
You want to make money out of this. It is surely understandable. But, don't make people pay you. Since this thing is getting biger now, this site's traffic will also grow. !ADVERTISEMENT! Do this...

Pay money to play the game? NO!...

"Play it like it's hot" by paying more!!? A BIGGER NO!...

ADVERTISEMENTS: BANNERS for those URLs:

http://www.googleearthhacks.com (must have) - http://www.gewar.com (optional)

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 07:04 PM
Don't agree. The more capacity it takes, the more Mickey pays for the server.
Why not join in on the costs.
Another option could be that it will be too expensive for Mickey and the game dissapears or evolves much slower.
Six months fee of 20 dollar is very low.
Or start by 5 to 10 dollars.
Just for a few extra posibilities like the nukes, faster armies and other things named here.

And other players should still be able to play for free. Just not with all the advantages. It should be an honorary thing to pay, but they should get a little advantage for it.
Just to help with the game. And by putting in public 'donor' behind their name would be a nice way of thanking them for it.
I'm seeing it as something that is needed. I have a few websites myself and I know how difficult it is by earning any money back through banners and other advertisement.
Just won't work.

Mickey
09-14-2005, 07:51 PM
ADVERTISEMENTS: BANNERS for those URLs:

http://www.googleearthhacks.com (must have) - http://www.gewar.com (optional)

I agree that would be the best move. However, read my first post for reasons why it's really not feasible with the game.

War_Peace
09-14-2005, 08:17 PM
I have read all of this thread...

Just don't make people pay, make "bigger guys" pay. Corporate guys...

And that "Pay More, Play More" thing makes me sick...

His Lord Uberdude
09-14-2005, 08:21 PM
I have read all of this thread...

Just don't make people pay, make "bigger guys" pay. Corporate guys...

And that "Pay More, Play More" thing makes me sick...
So, we should go charge Walmart for our game expenses? Yeesh, if you get the benefits, why should someone else pay for your playtime?

Mickey
09-14-2005, 08:25 PM
Just don't make people pay
We won't make anyone pay. I promise there will be a free way to play.

I'd love it if we could just do ads and keep everything free. Heck, a giant "BestBuy.com" image overlay across Canada would be pretty cool. I'm just not sure it's feasible to do something like that unless we have > 100,000 active players. To get that large, we'll need some servers well beforehand...

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 08:30 PM
I'm willing to become a donor anyway. Advantages or no advantages.
And I think there are more like me.
I just think putting a little advantage for them makes a statement like: thank you, here's your receipt.

War_Peace
09-14-2005, 09:37 PM
We won't make anyone pay. I promise there will be a free way to play.

I'd love it if we could just do ads and keep everything free. Heck, a giant "BestBuy.com" image overlay across Canada would be pretty cool. I'm just not sure it's feasible to do something like that unless we have > 100,000 active players. To get that large, we'll need some servers well beforehand...

I am talking about taking adverts to the www.googleearthhacks.com page not the game... That comes later and would be cool...

But again: "Pay More, Play More" => NO!...

Stanley
09-14-2005, 09:46 PM
But again: "Pay More, Play More" => NO!...

I'm not understanding you here.

Are you saying if people pay money for the game, they shouldn't get any advantages? I'm a HUGE fan of Premium service games, here are two to model on if that's your idea:

http://www.konoblemen.net/

http://www.urbansquall.com/

Granted, I've been affiliated with both those games in some way/shape/form, but they're AWESOME, and make enough money to pay for their servers.

Mickey, if you want the ICQ# of an admin on either site, I can get that to you.

-Stan

War_Peace
09-14-2005, 09:53 PM
Are you saying if people pay money for the game, they shouldn't get any advantages?


Then, do not make them pay!! Make Walmart pay...

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 09:58 PM
Nobody has to pay but those willing to because they want to help out in the costs of the server and the time it takes Mickey programming, should perhaps get a little advantage.

I heard everybody write here about making it tough to get nukes.
Well...becoming a donor to get nukes is a great idea i think.
Putting 'donor' between tags in the player list and forum is a good way of showing who actually paid.
And Mickey's idea of speeding up the armies.
And I do think for big payers there could be a reward like gold mines or something.
This way, for non payers there would change almost nothing.
Only the nukes.

Stanley
09-14-2005, 09:59 PM
Then, do not make them pay!! Make Walmart pay...

lol

I don't like Walmart either, but they're as likely to give you a free server and hosting as ..... well, they won't.

Advertising just won't pay for sites like this. Not without it being a pain in the ***.

Mickey is doing a great job with what he's got, but this site is gonna outgrow his servers shortly. Your complaints about things going slow can be fixed, but the only real solution is with $$$CASH$$$.

No free rides....

War_Peace
09-14-2005, 10:09 PM
That Walmart thing was a metaphor... It was a reference made to a "genius"

Yes free rides...

"A great leader may find a way to make rich(corporates) pay and others play. That very leader may also prevent disparity in the game by not taking any money from the players in return of extra features..." W_P

Stanley
09-14-2005, 10:21 PM
"A great leader may find a way to make rich(corporates) pay and others play. That very leader may also prevent disparity in the game by not taking any money from the players in return of extra features..." W_P

You seriously just quoted yourself? Wow.

War_Peace
09-14-2005, 10:30 PM
No, I didn't!...

???

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 10:32 PM
You seriously just quoted yourself? Wow.

hahaha LOL

Now seriously(allthough that was funny), I already thought of having donors for this site(game) before Mickey even came up with it.
After I read someone write that this new domain (www.gewar.com) must not have been cheap for Mickey.
And you don't have to pay he said. You can still play. Only to encourage paying or see it as a thanks for paying, the donors should have a little something special I think.
The rest is just for honor as i've said 3 billion times.

Mickey
09-14-2005, 10:59 PM
...this new domain (www.gewar.com) must not have been cheap for Mickey...
For what it's worth, domains are pretty cheap. I get mine for $8.95 at GoDaddy.com (http://www.godaddy.com), but there are other places for around the same price.

Also, just FYI, I picked up www.googleearthwar.com as well. :)

Lukepuuk
09-14-2005, 11:10 PM
That is cheap.

But it was just the topic that brought me on the idea.
For you it's a stimulation to keep on programming and spend money and time on it and for us it's not much and could give some a (very) little advantage and the feeling of being part of the whole project.

If I were you I'd just make that sticky topic giving people the choice of wether they pay for free or become a donor.
Hotmail is for free. It also gives you the option to pay and have a little more then the rest.

Stanley
09-15-2005, 12:14 AM
Just a thought about $$$.

You can't legally make money off a site using the Google trademark. I know it seems lame, but they WILL claim unfair competition if you do end up making money.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure how you end-run this, but it's probably worth considering, maybe even asking the EFF http://www.eff.org/

Mickey
09-15-2005, 12:25 AM
You can't legally make money off a site using the Google trademark. I know it seems lame, but they WILL claim unfair competition if you do end up making money.

I'm not too worried about that. If I was making a ton of money, it might be an issue. However, the numbers we'd be making won't be an issue.

Case in point: We already make some money off the main site. Using Google ads. They're well aware that we're making some money and it's not an issue. Their main concern is that we make it clear that we are not affiliated with them.

Unless someone with more legal knowledge than I (and I don't have much) comes and tells me something else, I think we're ok on that front.

Lukepuuk
09-15-2005, 12:27 AM
Isn't this in their interest?
It's about people using Google Earth?

Ok what about people just willing to help in on the costs?
Participating on this project more then just being someone paying to play a game with a google trademark?

rasqual
09-15-2005, 03:13 AM
Hey Mickey -- how about working towards selling an OEM (branded) version of GE for Google? They have a Plus, Pro, and Enterprise flavor. How about a War version? ;-)

As long as they'd get a royalty, maybe they'd let you in on the source code and that custom version a couple people've been wondering about could be a reality.

Take the long view maybe. I dunno.

Hey, I'm curious -- before the game I'd check out your site now and then, but the game sucked me in. On balance, are most players new, or long-time forum participants at your site? Any idea?

Mickey
09-15-2005, 03:41 AM
Hey Mickey -- how about working towards selling an OEM (branded) version of GE for Google? They have a Plus, Pro, and Enterprise flavor. How about a War version?
You love to shoot for the sky! :)


Hey, I'm curious -- before the game I'd check out your site now and then, but the game sucked me in. On balance, are most players new, or long-time forum participants at your site? Any idea?
I don't really know. I'll have to pull a list of registration time/date and compare it with the time/date that they started playing war and see how many are very close. Interesting idea...

blitzkrieg
09-15-2005, 08:31 AM
FYI, I browsed the forum after looking up google earth on google (of all places) and got sucked into the game aswell.

Also on the money front, maybe you could just appeal to the megalomaniacs and make paying a "shortcut to power". For $5 you get an army of 5,000 or 10,000 troops appear at your home base, maybe more for more money - everything else in the game is the same.

My example, I just got done like a dinner in my aussie city (sydney) and would have loved to instantly "buy" 10,000 trooops to stick it back to him, instead I have to plod along on the jewel trail again.

Blitzkrieg
... Speaking of Aussie cities...........................

Lukepuuk
09-15-2005, 10:37 AM
Also on the money front, maybe you could just appeal to the megalomaniacs and make paying a "shortcut to power". For $5 you get an army of 5,000 or 10,000 troops appear at your home base, maybe more for more money - everything else in the game is the same.





I don't know. That's about the same as just handing out Geo's for paying.
I go for the long shot for an advantage that stays, not something I can do in 2 hours of work.

blitzkrieg
09-15-2005, 11:05 AM
I don't know. That's about the same as just handing out Geo's for paying.
I go for the long shot for an advantage that stays, not something I can do in 2 hours of work.


It becomes the issue of more money than sense but I suppose it sorta becomes a gamble because it's just my untested theory, you might make heaps from people buying armies or people might shy away from it.

I'm kinda thinking I probably won't spend money on the game (not wanting to sound stingy), because there is plenty out there that I don't have to spend money on to play and the clear advantages gained by the payers over the non would just mean I wouldn't play.

The last thing you want is to spend a hell of a lot of time and energy creating a great global game only to have is fizzle because of the money to play.

I think the advantages of paying versus nonpaying need to be addressed to find the right balance. Otherwise, if too high (and they seem to be going that way) and having HUGE armies (script style) roaming around taking nonpaying cities at will, the "havenots" will quickly bore and leave. You do need a steady flow of "have nots" to create the next "haves". If too low then obviously people won't pay because there is little need. I'm sure your weighing that up though, Mickey, otherwise you wouldn't make a topic of it.

So far, from the responses, everyone is keen as punch to pay to play and good on em, but how many who wouldn't pay are going to put their hand up (like me)? Just another persepective.

But I'm stingy and maybe the only one......

My 2 cents
Blitzkrieg

Lukepuuk
09-15-2005, 11:21 AM
That's why just little advantages. A little faster army movement, able to buy nukes(they were talking about the nuke issue anyway) and showing the donors for honor.

This means you can still just as easily beat up a paid player when attacking him.

swooby
09-18-2005, 08:55 AM
Things you could get for donating $$:
Honorable mention for donors
The ability to move your home base at will (within reason)
The ability to reorganize your troops (split armies up, merge them, etc)
Own your own plantation/field/mine
You are still limited to adding one per 36 hours, but you don't have to fight for a spot on the plantation/field/mine.
Account never deleted
Better messaging options
More informative version of the web site

blitzkrieg
09-18-2005, 10:02 AM
Honorable mention for donors
no problem

The ability to move your home base at will (within reason)
within reason... though a bug and unrealistic element of the game can come out if not monitored. Someone can move their base to next to an empty city, claim it, then moves back... Should have huge (1 week) time constraints.

The ability to reorganize your troops (split armies up, merge them, etc)
All should have this ability regardless.

Own your own plantation/field/mine
You are still limited to adding one per 36 hours, but you don't have to fight for a spot on the plantation/field/mine.
Unneccessarily unfair advantage IMO

Account never deleted
Should go without saying (at least until subscription runs out)

Better messaging options
Possible - some examples?

More informative version of the web site
Surely more trouble than it's worth



Another idea is paying member get access to "email alerts" which can be configured to supply all kinds of alerts. Most important would be attack alerts and troops being sent to one of your cities.

I believe any advantages should be in the user friendly side of the game. If a nonpaying member has the time to commit to the game, this option will have little bearing on his conquests, although the ability to receive an email alert while at work, log in and move some armies around to intercept or buy more defenders would be very attractive to others.

My thoughts, remembering that I've painted myself as devil's advocate on this issue.

Blitzkrieg

michael fontenot
09-18-2005, 10:15 AM
Here's another approach to the "pay to play", instead of loosing a lot of potential subscribers right of the start when they see it requires a subscription, let them start with a free trial subscription. Along with many of these other guys I was just checking this game out when it sucked me in and consumed 100% of my free time. Give the noobs a chance to get sucked in...say a two week free membership with a small bank roll to get started and maybe shave some of the extras options or abilities from trial memberships. Two weeks later when they are addicted they will definitly be willing to pay a resonable subscription fee to gain full access to the extra abilities and options.

Lukepuuk
09-18-2005, 11:47 AM
Well I believe the intention was to keep it free to play for everyone.
But paid players would have an honorable mention and a little advantage.
Mickey himself came up with the idea of faster moving armies and I like a lot of the new ideas other players have come up with.

anthonywitt
09-21-2005, 06:53 AM
Yes, but not time after time again...or players who are willing to pay but don't have the money some have, would always be in the disadvantage.
Make it a 6 month period orso where the ones that pay just have a little advantage over the ones that don't.
That way it will be more fun for the players who pay, but the ones that don't can still have fun here.
After all, the paying part should be an honorary thing too. Place the name 'donor' (:P) or something between tags after their name.

Once more you have supplied a good point. The advantages of a subcribed player should not run new players away from the game.
There could be protection for new prospects to the game that would not let a subscribed player use advanced tactics on a newbe. We could still use everything that come with a subscription in battles between subscirbers.

araT
09-21-2005, 07:22 AM
How about a second playing field only accessible to subscribers? keeps all the newbie clutter out of the way for a REAL bloodbath.
this also gives the newbies a fair chance to get on their feet, as the true warlords could spend most of the time in the subscriber universe ;)
- There could be extra features in there, not available in the main room, new weapons, different armies.. a generally more advanced version.

T.

michael fontenot
09-21-2005, 10:12 AM
would that be difficult to set up T? sounds like a good idea, plus this way the newbs get to play for free till thier addicted and then will be glad to pay a subscription fee to play with the big boys. also like you said, this would get rid of the clutter.

Timmetie
09-21-2005, 04:55 PM
I know that in some free games its really really really depressing when you get beat by someone with an unfair advantage because they paid.

Id be fine with armies and such, but not with having paying people nukes while the rest doesn't. It just dont feel right.

Lukepuuk
09-23-2005, 12:02 AM
How about if paid members don't have a maximum for the bank. As they paid for it they are probably hooked players after all who choose to do this for a long time and should always be able to work towards more? :P
What if that and a little faster armies is the only advantage?

b076467
09-23-2005, 12:40 AM
game needs to stabalize befor wee can pay money.

Beezer
09-23-2005, 12:47 AM
game needs to stabalize befor wee can pay money.
It's still in beta right now....we are just thinking ahead to when it comes out of beta.

blitzkrieg
09-23-2005, 01:01 AM
How about if paid members don't have a maximum for the bank. As they paid for it they are probably hooked players after all who choose to do this for a long time and should always be able to work towards more? :P
What if that and a little faster armies is the only advantage?

Yes, this is a good example of a small difference, once someone gets to the limit they have obviously been playing the game for a while and then think to themselves "am I now going to step up?"

Lukepuuk
09-23-2005, 02:05 AM
Yes, this is a good example of a small difference, once someone gets to the limit they have obviously been playing the game for a while and then think to themselves "am I now going to step up?"

Yes, I think thats really a good idea.
This wouldn't make it an enormous difference between free players and paying ones...but it would make enough to pay.
For the starting payers you have faster armies or such...and for the longerlasting payers you have the bank account with no limit.


Great idea...what's mickey's bank account :). I just know he'll have that fixed by morning so can't wait to pay :D

Beezer
09-23-2005, 02:16 AM
Great idea...what's mickey's bank account :).
Send me some geo's and I'll tell you.... ;)

Lukepuuk
09-24-2005, 12:35 AM
Well....I did....so go ahead ;)

swooby
09-26-2005, 03:43 PM
I am writing a little SysTray app that monitors the GEWar game, tells me city stats, my armies, others armies (inbound towards my cities/armies), historics, resources, banking, etc, as well as makes it easy for me to hunt jewels (the original purpose of the app).
Paying customers could get something like this to make the game easier to play.
It is almost an unfair advantage to get an app like this by just forking out a few bucks.
Perhaps the more "unfair" versions could be taken out.
Being notified (email, pager, RSS) of incoming armies or attacks would be a great feature to give paying players!

NOTE: I've worked hard on my systray app. As hard as some people have been working at collecting jewels and building up armies, I have spent just as much time and effort on my systray app. Since I built the app by scratch with my own hands I do not consider it an unfair advantage. One day, with the permission of Mickey, I may release it to the public. I am not responding to inquiries on the app (except by admins of the game) until it becomes usable enough for the general public. I am off to a funeral this week and will try to make use of my time off of work to go through a major rewrite of it and add in more thorough features.

NOTE2: I myself have *zero* intentions of profiting monitarily if GEWar paying players were to use my app. 100% of the proceeds from paying customers would go directly towards the game.

rasqual
09-27-2005, 12:00 AM
NOTE: I've worked hard on my systray app.This is precisely the spirit in which Mickey launched the game in the first place. We all stand on the shoulders of the platforms we leverage to do cool things.

Personally, I heartily urge you to do some back-stage dialog with Mickey and gain some privileged "API-like" information. If Mickey can adopt some standards for exposing data (SOAP, anyone?), and keep them consistent across fresh builds, devs like you will have an easier job -- and that's how it ought to be, IMO.

I agree with Mickey's notion of nominal fees and attractive play advantages for paying players. I also think that you should park a paypal link by any download link for your systray widget, simply because grateful players might want to be kind. There's a difference between charging a price and being willing to receive gratuities.

Best of luck to you, and anyone else working hard at such!

No one has registered http://www.googleearthwarhacks.com yet? Good grief. ;-)

Beezer
09-27-2005, 12:48 AM
Personally, I heartily urge you to do some back-stage dialog with Mickey and gain some privileged "API-like" information. If Mickey can adopt some standards for exposing data (SOAP, anyone?), and keep them consistent across fresh builds, devs like you will have an easier job -- and that's how it ought to be, IMO.
Definitely talk to Miceky about what you have created. He is constantly looking for ways to improve/upgrade the game before he releases it from beta.

Mickey
09-27-2005, 12:56 AM
Personally, I heartily urge you to do some back-stage dialog with Mickey and gain some privileged "API-like" information. If Mickey can adopt some standards for exposing data (SOAP, anyone?), and keep them consistent across fresh builds, devs like you will have an easier job -- and that's how it ought to be, IMO.
I'm not big into SOAP (not that it's bad - I just haven't used it), but I could certainly write some things that would help a bit.


I agree with Mickey's notion of nominal fees and attractive play advantages for paying players. I also think that you should park a paypal link by any download link for your systray widget, simply because grateful players might want to be kind. There's a difference between charging a price and being willing to receive gratuities.
Agreed.


Definitely talk to Mickey about what you have created. He is constantly looking for ways to improve/upgrade the game before he releases it from beta.
We've spoken a little bit, but not enough yet. I'm sure we'll talk more.

dalou
09-28-2005, 01:46 AM
Hi

I just read the whole thread and saw a lot of interesintg ideas I particularly enjoyed the one with multiple worlds. Now how about this one : how about gewar was not only a web site but also a product, available on cd rom or through download. The product would allow people to create their own world ... the product would not be entirely free.
I just remembered Google selling their search engine technology to businesses.

swooby
10-05-2005, 03:12 PM
Definitely talk to Miceky about what you have created. He is constantly looking for ways to improve/upgrade the game before he releases it from beta.

Yeah, while writing my SysTray app I have come up with the need for some sort of an API and Classes to talk with Mickey's servers.
I planned to come up with that last week while I was off of work, but I got in to some other personal project that took up all of my time.

It would be interesting to brainstorm a "GoogleEarthWar API":
GEWarCommon -or- GEWarUtils
GEWarBank
GEWarCity
GEWarCities
GEWarArmy
GEWarArmies
GEWarResource
GEWarOil : GEWarResource
GEWarCotton : GEWarResource
GEWarDiamond : GEWarResource
GEWarResources

GEWarOil

GEWarCotton

GEWarDiamond
GEWarShop
GEWarShopItem
GEWarJewelCity
GEWarHomeBase
GEWarPlayer

GEWarHomeBase

GEWarArmies

GEWarCities

GEWarResources
GEWar...

I am wondering how Mickey has his game structured, and I would guess that my SysTray App would parallel most of that structure.

Mickey, would you be able to give us a glimpse of how you have the game laid out in objects?

Pv

jduddy
10-14-2005, 05:04 AM
Geos aside, I'm looking for suggestions as to how this game could generate a little bit of real cash. I'm not looking to become a millionaire (although I wouldn't mind... :)), but I'm already looking at needing another server to help support the game if it keeps growing at it's current rate.

A few thoughts I have already:

- Not based on donations. While that would help, I'd hate to be constantly begging for money.
- No required fee. That would essentially kill the game. It's fun, but I doubt many people would pay to play.
- Ads wouldn't really work. The ads on the main GEH site help a bit, but they wouldn't work too well in GEwar. For one thing, I'll be pushing more and more toward a GE only interface (no web required). Also, banner ads don't do well on online games, due to the very high pageview/visitor ratio.

So what's that leave? I'm not sure. I'd love to develop something where people would want to pay a small fee ($5/month? $20/year?) to play, but people wouldn't be forced to pay.

We've got time to work this out, but I'm just trying to look toward the future and I can't quite see it...

Consider using PAYPAL as a means of collecting a small subscription fee. I love the game and plan on supporting it.

This game as well as GEOEARTH needs to be marketed to schools. It is a great way to learn geography for students of ALL ages.

reklats
10-14-2005, 02:01 PM
No offense but this game isn't anywhere near ready to start charging. There are HUGE versions of this game out there that are still free after several years. None of them use google earth of course but then again neither does this game, much.

War_Peace
10-14-2005, 02:57 PM
No offense but this game isn't anywhere near ready to start charging. There are HUGE versions of this game out there that are still free after several years. None of them use google earth of course but then again neither does this game, much.

I am beginning to be a huge fan of this guy...

Beezer
10-14-2005, 03:01 PM
No offense but this game isn't anywhere near ready to start charging. There are HUGE versions of this game out there that are still free after several years. None of them use google earth of course but then again neither does this game, much.
Mickey started this thread as a way to start getting a feel for how much people would pay, should the time come to require payment. Just thinking far into the future.

The thing is still in beta, and will be for a while. The game is FAR from perfect.

js3486
10-14-2005, 07:20 PM
Witt had an interesting view point. Why not sell shares to those active in Beta test mode to give you the hardware to expand and grow. Then offer premium service (for a fee of course) after its initial release. I love, And I would invest both in buying some shares and in a premium membership.

reklats
10-14-2005, 07:46 PM
Selling shares would open him to all kinds of legalities that would actually cost more to manage than the benefits I think.

Beezer
10-14-2005, 07:50 PM
Selling shares would open him to all kinds of legalities that would actually cost more to manage than the benefits I think.
When Anthony spoke of "shares" he was referring to donations, not shares like shares of stock.


You could also ask for donations (shares) to support your server needs. When the needs are met then the shares would stop. Hey I would like to have part of this game.

Donations may be the way to go for now.

Lukepuuk
11-07-2005, 11:02 PM
How about donators can choose something else besides an army tent? They could choose a tank as a picture to show their armies moving?
And they have would have a choice of more city colors and such?
So everyone sees: thats a donator

Radeon
11-07-2005, 11:23 PM
How much would be reasonable to donate to get that thoe? see im 14 and my parents probably wouldnt allow me giving too much money... u know i gotta put it in the bank!

nytransit
11-07-2005, 11:27 PM
Haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this is a repeat...

What about something like inactive players get deleted after a time period (7 days) but pay players don't... Porn sites do this all the time, trial memberships, etc... seems to work for them...

It would keep the game fresh, as only people who care are in it..

I FULLY REALIZE there are a thousand ways around this, so don't bog down the thread with all the ways it can be compromised...take that effort and help Mickey solve this problem....

Radeon
11-08-2005, 12:10 AM
I will have to disagree with u on that... I spend way to much time on this game "according to my parents" so i will definatly not be able to donate any money.. And just because i cant do that doesnt mean i should get degraded by getting my account deleted after so long.. Maybe i want to put a lot of money in the bank and leave for a couple weeks. I dont want to come back and find my account deleted!

araT
11-08-2005, 12:25 AM
Radeon, well thems the ways.. donations wont be more than $5 or $10 at most (I presume, dont hold me on this) and if you cant scrape that together for Mickey then you dont get the donor priviledges... if worse comes to worse it will mean paying $5 p.h. in an internet cafe in the middle of nowhere to make sure you stay in the game :p

what are you expecting from a whinge like that, us to go "oh, we feel sorry for him, even though hes going against his parents wishes - hell, lets give the guy the donor stuff free"? not gonna happen :lol:

T.

Radeon
11-08-2005, 12:29 AM
no i didnt mean it that way.. if its only 10$ i would.. just tell me the mailing address and i will mail it to ya... my parents probbably wouldnt care than.. But if it was like 20-50 dollars than they would.. Im not whining or anything im just posting my thoughts on the boards.

WILDCAT1976
11-08-2005, 01:34 AM
I know the game is still in beta but if wanting to go to a pay site or something like that you MUST be able to stop the scripting or whatever it's called. I'd be more than willing to pay $5.00/$10.00 a month for a fair and fun game. There's tons of people that have the knowledge to create programs that find jewels but I'm not one of them and I would hate to pay for a game that I have no chance at.

If you guys can keep the game fair....I'm in....where do I send fee/donations?????

Course...if you stop the scripting and make some of the updates that i've heard about all of you may need to chip in on paying for my divorce lawyers...wifey thinks i spend too much time on here...heheehehehehehehe

Just my thoughts.....

socrates
11-08-2005, 08:06 AM
the pay for a some advantage idea is the best idea
I for 1 will pay for an added advantage...
of course, it could be a subscription based thing. 10 USD for 6 months or something...
This is a good idea... and it has worked before...
check out www.gamestotal.com
they got 2 main games going and another 2 in beta...

Lukepuuk
11-08-2005, 03:57 PM
I'll pay to have the feeling of helping out already, and also if you get a little honorary thing...like its mentioned behind your name with an icon or something.
All extra's like tanks instead of tents, a little faster armies or whatever are appreciated, but wouldn't change my mind on paying a little in the first place.
I know its just Beta but Mickey should just put a system on where people can pay if they want to...because we all play here and I see no reason why the one who's already doing the programming work should have to pay for all the expenses while we have the fun(though we are the testers ofcourse ;) ).

cowtreky
11-09-2005, 03:01 AM
I would be more than willing to put in a donation even if it did not mean any special privliges (good spelling).

We all play here, we all have fun.

Is there an addreass, po box, pay pal for said donations?

damonfreemanza
11-09-2005, 09:15 PM
What if you made extra cities available to those who've paid? The non-paying players could still play as normal. The paying players can have 20 (or 50)extra cities to fight over. You'd only be able to attack or occupy it if you were a paying member. OR you could make the current premium cities (say, over 10,000,000 value) available only to the paying players.

casp3r
11-11-2005, 01:29 PM
I also play a game called Runescape. This is totally free to play but you have to pay for extras - use of certain weapons, access to parts of the map etc. The game doesn't suffer from the fact that it's free - I think there's about 100,000+ playing it. So maybe, as suggested by a number of people here, the game should remain free with the option to pay for additional services, equipment, map access etc.

I'll still be playing no matter what :)

bhanukir7
11-20-2005, 02:55 PM
i had heard of project entropia being a paid real time virtual game s also hope this will also go that way and add more real graphics and corporate sponsorship is a very good idea pls look into that boss ;)

punchthemonkey94
11-21-2005, 01:21 AM
I'm only 15, i have a crappy job, which i only get to be at on weekends, and it doesn't even pay minimum wage, not to mention I'm trying to save for a car, and other things every other geeky teenager would want. Isuggest you make it between 10 and 25 dollars flat rate. Not monthly. I cant afford monthly, as well as other younger kids who play this game. I could deal with anything up to $50 yearly. But unless it was 2.50 a month, I doubt many younger players would go for it. I definatley support the idea of getting some benefits such as more resources, different army images besides tents. and different colors, as mentioned before. For resources, we should be able to get them more often (like maybe 12-18 hours instead of 36), and they should provide more. And i don't know if this is possible, but maybe donators could have a seperate earth, so the people can't pay up don't have a clear disadvantage. I think this would make the entire browser interface more simple as well, meaning the difference between the non-payers interface and the donators interface.
That's all I've got to suggest about it.

Lukepuuk
11-21-2005, 03:58 PM
But creating a different earth for paying players has its problems.
You wouldn't have an advantage as you are only playing against paying players and you need a LOT of paying players then.

Timmetie
11-21-2005, 04:01 PM
indeed thats insane.. paying players should have an advantage, and a world with only paying players would give no advantage.

No-one is saying this game will be impossible to play unless paying or something, almost all internet games have an option to pay for bonusses.
The game should remain equally fun if everything goes right..


darn communists!

Aaron-UK
11-21-2005, 05:17 PM
I think the issue here is not necessarily players paying but a need for cash to help Mickey in 'out of pocket' expenses incurred in running the site and the game.

I for one would probably not pay to play or make a donation even if it did mean special privileges. (That’s not to cast any aspersions on the game it’s just a measure of my own level of dedication).

I would not however, be averse to seeing more advertising on the site. I know some sites go overboard in an attempt to generate revenue but as that’s not the purpose here I think advertising is the way to go.

I’ve noticed on the main site there are several ‘Google Ads’ that are discreet and well placed. Maybe more of the same in other areas could generate an income.

And I think it’s important to remember, any ads on the site would be to sustain rather than enrich therefore we all benefit from their presence…



By the way… how do Google Ads work… does the site holder receive a return only when the link is clicked on… If this is the case I propose we all make a conscious effort to click at least five a day when using the site to generate more cash!!!

Lukepuuk
11-21-2005, 05:25 PM
I tried Ads on my site and it didn't work. Tried dozens of companys but as long as people don't click on the ads, I make no money. And we're talking about thousands of people that need to click on it or become member of something.
And we all know we don't want pop-ups here.

So my guess is ads are not really an option. I've heard from so many people here that were willing to donate something.
The game remains playable without paying also.
There would just be a little bonus for paying players.