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Mickey
10-21-2005, 02:58 AM
As you may have noticed, the jewel hunting process has just changed quite a bit. Rather than looking for GEwar cities around the world, you are now sent to look for famous (and some not-so-famous) landmarks from everywhere.

Here's the secret: They're all being pull from the main GEH file database (http://www.googleearthhacks.com/downloads/). If you can't find one, just run a search in there, find the file that has the same title as the location you're trying to find, and there it will be!

The reason for the change is two-fold:

1 - To prevent (or at least slow down) scripting. These locations are not all in a single KML file, so they're going to be hard to script. On top of that, there are literally thousands of locations that will eventually be in there, so it will be tough to cheat.

2 - To make jewel hunting a bit more of a pain in the neck. Ideally, people only jewel hunt when necessary, and otherwise develop a nice income from oil wells, cotton fields, diamond mines, bank interest and city taxes. Still, jewels need to be around if you need them.

Since it's now much more difficult to find jewels, the rate will be going up. Not way up, but up a nice amount. Again, I don't want people to be jewel hunting for all of their income, so the rate won't be especially high.

Please post in here if you have any technical problems with the new system, or if some location is just "bad" and you can't find the jewel there.

Brendo
10-21-2005, 03:03 AM
Pentagon - Updated

Maybe remove the '- updated' part

Mickey
10-21-2005, 03:06 AM
Pentagon - Updated

Maybe remove the '- updated' part
There will be some that look silly like that (some will say "overlay", for one example). I'm not gonna worry about it for now, as the "updated" text is worthwhile on the main site, and this script simply uses those same descriptions. You make a good point, though.

jduddy
10-21-2005, 03:07 AM
As you may have noticed, the jewel hunting process has just changed quite a bit. Rather than looking for GEwar cities around the world, you are now sent to look for famous (and some not-so-famous) landmarks from everywhere.

Here's the secret: They're all being pull from the main GEH file database (http://www.googleearthhacks.com/downloads/). If you can't find one, just run a search in there, find the file that has the same title as the location you're trying to find, and there it will be!

The reason for the change is two-fold:

1 - To prevent (or at least slow down) scripting. These locations are not all in a single KML file, so they're going to be hard to script. On top of that, there are literally thousands of locations that will eventually be in there, so it will be tough to cheat.

2 - To make jewel hunting a bit more of a pain in the neck. Ideally, people only jewel hunt when necessary, and otherwise develop a nice income from oil wells, cotton fields, diamond mines, bank interest and city taxes. Still, jewels need to be around if you need them.

Since it's now much more difficult to find jewels, the rate will be going up. Not way up, but up a nice amount. Again, I don't want people to be jewel hunting for all of their income, so the rate won't be especially high.

Please post in here if you have any technical problems with the new system, or if some location is just "bad" and you can't find the jewel there.


Another reason not to hunt jewels.

Tech glitch....after downloading the new Jewel Hunting KML the search window locked up---unable to erase, type ,etc

Mickey
10-21-2005, 03:08 AM
Tech glitch....after downloading the new Jewel Hunting KML the search window locked up---unable to erase, type ,etc
That's strange. The KML file is still almost exactly the same. In fact, you don't need to download the new one - your old one works fine.

I have to think that was just a Google Earth glitch and not related to this, but we'll see what others have to say...

Beezer
10-21-2005, 03:10 AM
I think its a good idea. Cuts down on scripting and gets back to leveraging Google Earth.

socrates
10-21-2005, 05:35 AM
well it will also make everyone more worldly...

KayEss
10-21-2005, 06:42 AM
You seem to be using the look at location in the file and not the placemark location in the file. This makes some of them pretty hard to find if you know where the location is. For example Panama Canal.

Not to mention that in this case the canal is huge and the placemark is a tiny part of it...

sunfly
10-21-2005, 07:27 AM
Ok, great news about the jewel searching. But whats about the newbies, the had no chance to come into the play. they need hours to find a jewel. Since 45 min i look for the jewel at lake titicaca in bolivia, zoom under 20 miles, but cant found it on the sea. Its fine to see the world, but herefor i have google earth since long times for researches. 1 hour for one or two jewels, thats the end of gaming. Google earth for searching all over the world, ok. but gewar ? what should a new gamer do with 5 miniarmies against the rest. login, money to the bank and wait for few years.

cheating kill games !

sunfly
(17 armies, 12284 troops, working without scripts, only ressources and finding jewels)

blitzkrieg
10-21-2005, 07:29 AM
Nice timing KayEss,

My geography is ok and for the few that I've found I haven't had to look much up, but suez canal was a real pain, I scrolled along the length of it slowly, then tried scrolling with canal on either side of screen and then just thought, bugger it, and went looking for the link. I left it on the port said side (North) and went a-googlin' when lo', the jewel FINALLY appeared, it was very slow to appear and the suez canal is very long. I'd Hate to see the Amazon river link :whoa:

blitzkriegmj

ronnielim
10-21-2005, 07:35 AM
so is Grand Canyon.... cannot find the jewel there ~~!!

now i am stuck there...

sunfly
10-21-2005, 08:18 AM
---Click here for your next location
Zoom in on the following location to find your jewel:
This file is located in the country of Bolivia.---

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Which location ??? no name, only a grey field

Brendo
10-21-2005, 08:39 AM
so is Grand Canyon.... cannot find the jewel there ~~!!

now i am stuck there...

You have to download the file from the Download setion of Google Earth Hacks. The picture pretty much is the name of the kml file.
For example:
The picture says 'Pentagon - Updated'
You have to go to GEH and search for the file 'Pentagon - Updated', not 'Pentagon September 12, 2001' or something by a different name. You then open the file, and GE will take you to the location (placemark).
The jewel can be found in the same place as the placemark.

Hope that makes sense.

Brendo
10-21-2005, 08:41 AM
no name, only a grey field

There is meant to be a picture there (where the grey box is). Did you wait to see if it had loaded?

doc_highlander
10-21-2005, 09:02 AM
so is Grand Canyon.... cannot find the jewel there ~~!!

now i am stuck there...

the same: no jewel in Grand Canyon

sorry: i see no "Grand Canyon - updated" - file

sunfly
10-21-2005, 09:22 AM
@ brendo
now the picture is in the box, lake titicaca. i wait exactly 1h 13 min for this!

WalterNeff
10-21-2005, 09:23 AM
Nice one! :)

sunfly
10-21-2005, 09:36 AM
time for the next coffee while waiting for the next jewel in stonehenge,
its toooooo long !

WalterNeff
10-21-2005, 09:49 AM
...

Please post in here if you have any technical problems with the new system, or if some location is just "bad" and you can't find the jewel there.

Easter Island:
27 8'46.87"S,10920'1.56"W but there is no jewel...

sunfly
10-21-2005, 09:53 AM
Same at stonehenge 511110.05N 14912.57W
No jewel !

sunfly
10-21-2005, 10:07 AM
wow, found it! But its 6 miles south of the placemark. The picture is wrong !
I sent a new corrected pic to earthhacks.

sunfly
10-21-2005, 10:37 AM
Whats that ????:

You searched for eiffeltower
(Note: There will be a maximum of 25 files returned.)

Only 25 per day/month/year/hole life ??????????

araT
10-21-2005, 10:47 AM
You searched for eiffeltower
(Note: There will be a maximum of 25 files returned.)

This means it will only show you 25 different files with "eiffel tower" in the name, if there are more than 25 files available, it will not show you the rest, you have to make your search more specific.. you can see an example of this by searching "plane" it only shows 25 (randomly selected) results, but we all know there are hundreds of planes in the file archive.

T.

sunfly
10-21-2005, 10:57 AM
thank you !
need more coffee ;-))))

sunfly
10-21-2005, 11:25 AM
no jewels in grand canyon ???

Mickey
10-21-2005, 11:44 AM
I've just changed the script so that you can fly out 2-3 times further and it will still find the jewel. This will allow you to cover large areas (like the Grand Canyon) much easier.

Along those lines, I might just remove the Grand Canyon from this aspect of the game...

ghchinoy
10-21-2005, 12:35 PM
I can't get a jewel to pop up for Lake Titicaca, anyone else able to?

Mickey
10-21-2005, 12:46 PM
I can't get a jewel to pop up for Lake Titicaca, anyone else able to?
I downloaded that KML file (http://www.googleearthhacks.com/dlfile43/Lake-Titicaca.htm), zoomed in to about 20 miles and it popped up.

The KML files should be automatically centered on the correct location. All you should need to do (if anything) is zoom in.

Timmetie
10-21-2005, 01:18 PM
Stonehenge is odd.

Or you had stonehenge somewhere, moved it, and then moved it back,

Or there are 2 Stonehenges in the area.

Mickey
10-21-2005, 01:39 PM
There are a few stonehenges in the database (a placemark, one with an overlay, one with some 3d models), although I'm not sure which ones have been flagged for jewels yet. Really, though, they should all be in about the same spot...

ghchinoy
10-21-2005, 02:05 PM
I downloaded that KML file (http://www.googleearthhacks.com/dlfile43/Lake-Titicaca.htm), zoomed in to about 20 miles and it popped up.

The KML files should be automatically centered on the correct location. All you should need to do (if anything) is zoom in.

Thanks, Mickey, zooming in to about 20 miles in worked.

TheLeveller
10-21-2005, 02:48 PM
Mickey, you must be kidding with the new jewel hunt! I opened the file and it wants me to find the pyramids of Giza. Are we supposed to download megabites of files? Or search for hours? I don't know about the other players, but I have a life in the real world (job, girlfriend, websites etc). I already spent more time on GEW than I wanted. I can't spend hours to find 10 jewels. Armies can be gone in seconds, and now it's pretty hard to recover. Actually I didn't do jewel hunting, but after the exchange rate for resources went down I need to hold this option...

Beezer
10-21-2005, 02:53 PM
Mickey, you must be kidding with the new jewel hunt! I opened the file and it wants me to find the pyramids of Giza. Are we supposed to download megabites of files? Or search for hours? I don't know about the other players, but I have a life in the real world (job, girlfriend, websites etc). I already spent more time on GEW than I wanted. I can't spend hours to find 10 jewels. Armies can be gone in seconds, and now it's pretty hard to recover. Actually I didn't do jewel hunting, but after the exchange rate for resources went down I need to hold this option...
You shouldn't have to search for hours. All the sites you have to locate come from the GEH database of files. If you use the serach function on the main page and type in the name exactly as it appears in the jewel hunting, you can locate the correct file easily. A few clicks later you have your jewel.

It took me maybe 30-45 seconds per jewel to locate and "take" the jewel.

TheLeveller
10-21-2005, 02:57 PM
When all the jewel hunters download the files from the database, wouldn't this make the site traffic go up like a rocket? Maybe you will take that "sightseeing" thing off after you see your bills... ;)

Mickey
10-21-2005, 02:58 PM
Are we supposed to download megabites of files?
The files are quite small, but yes, that's likely the quickest way to do it.


I already spent more time on GEW than I wanted. I can't spend hours to find 10 jewels. Armies can be gone in seconds, and now it's pretty hard to recover.
That's the whole idea. I want a way to encourage people to build up a good economy on their own, where they have other resources flowing in on a consistent basis and they don't need to jewel hunt. My account has no special treatment - I have to get things the way everyone else does. As such, I'm working on building up my economy before I worry about attacking anyone substantially. I'm looking at making some useful changes to the other resources (http://www.googleearthhacks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3558) that should help people to better utilize them.

The bottom line is that I need some way for people to get things back in order after they get destroyed, but it has to be built in a such a way that scripts can't be used to take advantage of the system.

I may raise the jewel rate a bit higher to compensate for the extra time involved (although I already nearly doubled it), but I'm undecided at this point.

Mickey
10-21-2005, 03:00 PM
When all the jewel hunters download the files from the database, wouldn't this make the site traffic go up like a rocket? Maybe you will take that "sightseeing" thing off after you see your bills... ;)
That's a good point. However, I don't think it'll be much of an issue, as those files are quite small. The biggest drain on the server currently is the "five minute update script" that recalculates everything, gives out oil, gives out cotton, gives out diamonds, gives bank interest, gives city taxes, takes army costs, etc. I really don't think this will add to that by very much. I hope. :)

reklats
10-21-2005, 03:08 PM
yuck :mad:

birq
10-21-2005, 03:14 PM
The biggest drain on the server currently is the "five minute update script" that recalculates everything, gives out oil, gives out cotton, gives out diamonds, gives bank interest, gives city taxes, takes army costs, etc.

Why not do things in real-time? I haven't worked with PHP/mySQL, but in the world of Java, there's not that much difference between hitting the database to pull the "calculated" values versus pulling the raw data and calculating it right then (if you architect and code things properly, of course).

You can be smart about caching some things that don't need to be shown real-time, and leave some things in a scheduled task, but things like an army's time to a city should be real-time.

That's one more thing that I've been meaning to mention for quite some time :)

TheLeveller
10-21-2005, 03:33 PM
I want a way to encourage people to build up a good economy on their own, where they have other resources flowing in on a consistent basis and they don't need to jewel hunt.
That's exactly what I do. But if you want to encourage people to build an economy based on resources and want to make jewel hunt less attractive/necessary, why do you lower the resource exchange rates and raise the jewel exchange rate? In my opinion that's doing the opposite.

Mickey
10-21-2005, 04:10 PM
You can be smart about caching some things that don't need to be shown real-time, and leave some things in a scheduled task, but things like an army's time to a city should be real-time.
I've looked at doing some of that, but there are a few issues:

- Right now, the army display in GE just pulls the current coordinates from the database. Once there gets to be a sizable number of armies out there, calculating that info on the fly (for every different GE user viewing it) could get rather server-intensive.
- I need to know ahead of time exactly when they'll be arriving in a city so I can make things happen when they get there (changing their status and stuff).

It's all stuff that I can work my way around eventually, and probably will some day, but for now it's just not enough of a priority.

Mickey
10-21-2005, 04:13 PM
Why do you lower the resource exchange rates and raise the jewel exchange rate? In my opinion that's doing the opposite.
Agreed. The jewel rate has actually stayed about the same (I had dropped it temporarily, so it's back "up" now, but it's really just where it used to be), but now jewel hunting is much more tedious, thus making it essentially a lower rate.

The resource rates dropped a bit, but the amount of each resource that is produced from your mines/wells/etc jumped UP quite a bit. I made tweak the rates upward a bit, but every resource will give you a 10-1000% rate of return, which isn't too shabby.

birq
10-21-2005, 04:14 PM
- Right now, the army display in GE just pulls the current coordinates from the database. Once there gets to be a sizable number of armies out there, calculating that info on the fly (for every different GE user viewing it) could get rather server-intensive.

My bad; I wasn't thinking about GE, just the web interface. That makes things a little more hairy.

Lukepuuk
10-22-2005, 02:00 AM
Now this is actually more fun.
It's making much more use of Google Earth and what it can actually do.
I was getting quite sick of seeing the same streets of those cities so this is actually a refreshment.

KayEss
10-22-2005, 02:43 AM
Mickey, I still think you need to check that the script is using the placemark location and not the lookat location as they are often quite different places (that is the Point tag inside the Placemark tag rather than the first LookAt tag).

The placemark location is better for those that know where the location is and can find it, but the lookat is probably better for those that grab the KML file from the download area. For many of the files the difference can easily be tens of kilometers if not more if the view is very oblique.

As you are parsing the files anyway it may be better to reject those that have a very different lookat and placemark location. If the file doesn't have a placemark at all then it is probably not worth using it.

I've stoped collecting them now - it was just too painful. I'll grow a bit slower but not waste quite so much time on it.

reklats
10-22-2005, 12:29 PM
The more the jewels are worth the faster the game can be played. Jewel value = Game Speed. The only thing is, there's no defined "end" to the game. No winner. There should be some type of ending point or goal in mind to close and reset the game. Or multiple games.

Mickey
10-22-2005, 04:28 PM
The only thing is, there's no defined "end" to the game. No winner. There should be some type of ending point or goal in mind to close and reset the game.
I look at it like the #1 ranking in Tennis or Golf. People work hard to be number one and stay there as long as they can, but it never "ends".


Or multiple games.
That's something I'd like to get into eventually, but it'll take a LOT of reworking of the code.

TheLeveller
10-23-2005, 11:40 AM
Back to the resources. The daily production is lower, but they last longer. Mickey kinda said in the long run you make the same money out of an oil well, cotton field or diamind mine. It would be the same like a short running well, field or mine. It's good that we are able to have more of those now. But now there's the problem. Those resources don't make enough geos a day so you can get new wells, fields or mines every 36 hours. I have a cotton field with 68 pounds a day, that's 10.2 geos a day. My recently bought oil well makes me 5.5 geos a day. How am I supposed to get 50 geos every 36 hours just to buy one of the 3 resource facilities?

blitzkrieg
10-23-2005, 01:09 PM
We've gone from the complaints of fields only last 2 days (12 hours longer than the 36 hour limit), to the complaints of fields giving out, in Levellers example, 5.5 geos a day.... There's gotta be some middle ground we can strive for here.

lets say the average mine pumps out 15 geos a day and lasts for 30 days (not exactly sure what the averages are). If you can only buy new ones every 36 hours, the average you can have running is 20 ongoing, but more likely 17-18 because you will miss some 36 hour deadlines. 18 @ 15 geos is 270 geos per day. Those figures aren't bad (though I've guesstimated the average m/w/f), but it takes the full 30 days as a newbie to reach that pinnacle.

This maximum output figure hasn't actually changed, the average maximum anyone could get in is still the same when the outputs last got massaged. Although it was more variable, with good mines and bad mines having a larger impact over short term spurts.

I think double output and half time. 15 days to reach maximum output.

That's my vote.

blitzkriegmj

Mickey
10-23-2005, 01:22 PM
I've made each resource different, so you can do what you want:

Diamonds - short lifespan, high daily output.
Oil - average lifespan, average output
Cotton - long lifespan, low ouput (but the highest total output)

cowtreky
10-23-2005, 04:23 PM
1 - To prevent (or at least slow down) scripting. These locations are not all in a single KML file, so they're going to be hard to script. On top of that, there are literally thousands of locations that will eventually be in there, so it will be tough to cheat.

2 - To make jewel hunting a bit more of a pain in the neck. Ideally, people only jewel hunt when necessary, and otherwise develop a nice income from oil wells, cotton fields, diamond mines, bank interest and city taxes. Still, jewels need to be around if you need them.

Good Work Mickey, but I still agree with a previous comment, what about the newbies whom just entered the game? Do they recieve a free city randomly selected, extra start off geos, or each recieve a free start up c/d/o mine.

Mickey
10-23-2005, 04:52 PM
Good Work Mickey, but I still agree with a previous comment, what about the newbies whom just entered the game? Do they recieve a free city randomly selected, extra start off geos, or each recieve a free start up c/d/o mine.
They get some jewels and some Geos, with a total value of around 70 Geos.