Improvements coming very soon - would appreciate your input

Mickey · 08-17-2005, 01:39 AM

Two things I'm hoping to get some work done on tonight:

1 - Time delays. This will start simple, but gradually get more and more advanced. For tonight, I think I'll start with nukes. If a city gets nuked and cleared out, no one will be able to occupy the city for one hour, due to radiation. After an hour is up, whoever is first to the city gets it.

The only major hole in this plan is if you nuke a city with more than 10 armies, the remaining armies can stay in there. I had considered raising the price of nukes and then allowing them to completely destroy cities, but that might be a problem down the line if someone works for a while to build up a massive city and then it gets destroyed in one shot.

One workaround might be a nuke-shield for a city. You can buy one for a substantial price (200 Geos?), but that city can not ever be damaged by nukes again. However, if you lose control of the city by normal means, the nuke shield would stay intact for the new player to have.

This would allow us to raise the price of nukes but then allow them to completely wipe out cities that don't have a shield.

2 - New resource gathering. I think I'll start with oil. My plan is roughly as follows. I'll create a new KML file you need to download. (note: I'll probably do this for each new type of resource, so you can pick and choose what to go after.) Next, I'll set up giant blocks of land on the map that are oil-rich. I'll probably make dark-gray, flat polygons. You can go into one of those areas and set-up an oil well. However, there are a few catches:

- It will cost you - maybe 25 Geos?
- It can't be within xx miles of another well.
- It might be completely dry.

If you find a good spot (completely random within the "oil-rich area"), it will generate xx barrels per hour/day for xx days. I would think a good one would earn you a couple hundred barrels before it dries up. The occasional great one would get you a couple thousand. You can trade those barrels of oil in for Geos to use on armies and supplies.

Down the road, you might be able to steal oil wells from other players or sell them. Not sure.

Thoughts on these two ideas?

birq · 08-17-2005, 02:04 AM

Quote:

You can go into one of those areas and set-up an oil well.

Would it have to be an area you control, because most of the (real-world) places that are rich in oil are fairly remote.

If you don't control have to control the area, then most likely we'll have a bunch of different people whose wells are right next to each other. That's not terribly realistic, but I guess it's better than nothing.

The most realistic scenario would be that you have to control the cities surrounding the oil-rich area to be able to drill, but that would be pretty dang hard to accomplish.

Mickey · 08-17-2005, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birq

Would it have to be an area you control, because most of the (real-world) places that are rich in oil are fairly remote.

I'm thinking I'll only put the oil areas a decent distance from any capturable cities.

Quote:

If you don't control have to control the area, then most likely we'll have a bunch of different people whose wells are right next to each other. That's not terribly realistic, but I guess it's better than nothing.

I'll make it so they can't be too close together. I'm trying to not worry about realism too much, but it at least needs to be somewhat logical.

Quote:

The most realistic scenario would be that you have to control the cities surrounding the oil-rich area to be able to drill, but that would be pretty dang hard to accomplish.

That might happen eventually...

rasqual · 08-17-2005, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

If a city gets nuked and cleared out, no one will be able to occupy the city for one hour, due to radiation. After an hour is up, whoever is first to the city gets it.

Fine for now, I guess. In coming months you'll probably find you need to extend that out to a week or more. I also suggest such cities have some kind of metadata visually indicated (both in the web interface and in Earth), so it's obvious right away that you can't occupy it.

Quote:

One workaround might be a nuke-shield for a city. You can buy one for a substantial price (200 Geos?), but that city can not ever be damaged by nukes again. However, if you lose control of the city by normal means, the nuke shield would stay intact for the new player to have.

Aaack! Realism alert, realism alert? Here we are back to the "if a Geo is like a dollar we have to scale this thing dramatically upwards" issue. Heck, you can't buy nukes at ANY price in the real world, just now. If there WAS a price . . . holy cow. It'd be sky high.

Quote:

New resource gathering. I think I'll start with oil. My plan is roughly as follows. I'll create a new KML file you need to download. (note: I'll probably do this for each new type of resource, so you can pick and choose what to go after.) Next, I'll set up giant blocks of land on the map that are oil-rich. I'll probably make dark-gray, flat polygons. You can go into one of those areas and set-up an oil well. However, there are a few catches:

- It will cost you - maybe 25 Geos?

Aaack! Realism alert! Check that cost with Schlumberger, OK? ;-)

[/QUOTE]- It can't be within xx miles of another well.
- It might be completely dry.

If you find a good spot (completely random within the "oil-rich area"), it will generate xx barrels per hour/day for xx days. I would think a good one would earn you a couple hundred barrels before it dries up. The occasional great one would get you a couple thousand. You can trade those barrels of oil in for Geos to use on armies and supplies.[/QUOTE]

Nice, dude. Just think about realistic money. Heck, I don't care if you're an order of magnitude off -- but just now you're about 6 orders off. ;-)

That febrile little brain of your'n is workin' overtime. Good show!

birq · 08-17-2005, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Nice, dude. Just think about realistic money. Heck, I don't care if you're an order of magnitude off -- but just now you're about 6 orders off.

Man, I'm so incredibly sick of mindlessly flying around to find jewels, the idea of finally getting something to generate money for me is so exciting. Please don't be a buzzkill by trying to make things realistic. Please?

Mickey · 08-17-2005, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasqual

Fine for now, I guess. In coming months you'll probably find you need to extend that out to a week or more.

Quite likely.

Quote:

I also suggest such cities have some kind of metadata visually indicated (both in the web interface and in Earth), so it's obvious right away that you can't occupy it.

I plan on adding that.

Quote:

Aaack! Realism alert, realism alert? Here we are back to the "if a Geo is like a dollar we have to scale this thing dramatically upwards" issue. Heck, you can't buy nukes at ANY price in the real world, just now. If there WAS a price . . . holy cow. It'd be sky high.

I've decided that a Geo is like a Geo, not a dollar. If someone wants to try to work out how many dollars a Geo would be worth, that's fine. For purposes of this game, it doesn't really matter, as long as items are a reasonable price relative to one another and the ability to earn Geos.

Along the thought of realism - I've decided to simply forego some in order to make a better, more balanced game. You have some incredible ideas, and I honestly hope to implement many of them over time. However, my main goal right now is to simply create a fun, fair game that people will enjoy playing. While I'll strive to keep things as realistic as possible, I'll also add things in that create better balance, regardless of how realistic they might be. I mean, come on - a "nuke shield"? It's crazy and completely unrealistic, but I think it helps achieve a goal.

Mickey · 08-17-2005, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birq

Man, I'm so incredibly sick of mindlessly flying around to find jewels, the idea of finally getting something to generate money for me is so exciting. Please don't be a buzzkill by trying to make things realistic. Please?

Kidding or not, this is a growing sentiment. I'm anxious to get something else out there to help people earn jewels, without necessarily being 100% realistic.

France · 08-17-2005, 10:06 AM

I think it's good to have to controle the natural ressources point (oil or whatever). But if you have to control those point, you may balance the interest to controle cities, because I won't be interested anymore to try to have cities (that cost), and I will use all my armies to controle ressources to get GEOs. Up to the point that I will be soooooo rich that I can kill everybody and become the King of the Word gnacgnacgnac!!! And as I will be alone in the earth, I will controle ALL the ressources and will be king FOREVER!!!!

Sad strategy, you're right, but it can work.

I think you may put, in the same time you creat natural ressources, the fact that cities allow you to put taxes and get money.
Maybe you can use the system of making the size of the city changing due to the facte you put less or much taxes.
Or you simplify the system with a fixed taxe rate, but different for each city (then some cities can be more interesting with a smaller population than another). You propably can find real datas to use, like productivity of populations, or so on.

Excellent work anyway!!!

When the game will be stabilized, ask us to translate it, if you want: I can do it in french.

rasqual · 08-17-2005, 01:42 PM

Comments good, but I don't understand any sense in which implementing wealth generation engines is at variance with realism. I see it as being QUITE realistic. We're all talking with one voice here, I think.

Let me summarize my realism concern this way: if you have an opportunity to implement some architecture or feature realistically, and don't, that would be a shame. If doing so would require far more development effort than you have time to put in, commeding a less realistic design choice, well, what can you do? That's a realistic limit in YOUR world!

That's my plea. Don't GRATUITOUSLY avoid realism at points where you have the power to embrace and extend it. Only avoid realism where you just don't have time to go there.

THe objection that trying to be realistic will make the game less fun, though (or that one must embrace a determined lack of realism in order to achieve as much), is simply not something I'll hear from anyone without putting up a fight, because it's a ridiculous notion. To date, nearly every suggestion implemented has been in the direction of more -- not less -- realism.

But I yammer.

Mickey · 08-17-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasqual

That's my plea. Don't GRATUITOUSLY avoid realism at points where you have the power to embrace and extend it. Only avoid realism where you just don't have time to go there.

I agree.

Quote:

THe objection that trying to be realistic will make the game less fun, though (or that one must embrace a determined lack of realism in order to achieve as much), is simply not something I'll hear from anyone without putting up a fight, because it's a ridiculous notion. To date, nearly every suggestion implemented has been in the direction of more -- not less -- realism.

Again, I agree.

rasqual · 08-17-2005, 05:25 PM

Say -

With RISK in mind, how about having extrusions for armies -- have them be little tent shapes. Pup tents. Just two planes meeting at about a 80 degree angle. Something like that.

Assemble armies wherever they're deployed. Attack cities directly from a link in the balloon (don't link to an attack page, just park the Get URL right in the balloon html). Watch tents disappear one by one (the battle rages over time).

Could be fun.

08-17-2005, 01:39 AM	#1
Mickey Administrator Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,328	Improvements coming very soon - would appreciate your input Two things I'm hoping to get some work done on tonight: 1 - Time delays. This will start simple, but gradually get more and more advanced. For tonight, I think I'll start with nukes. If a city gets nuked and cleared out, no one will be able to occupy the city for one hour, due to radiation. After an hour is up, whoever is first to the city gets it. The only major hole in this plan is if you nuke a city with more than 10 armies, the remaining armies can stay in there. I had considered raising the price of nukes and then allowing them to completely destroy cities, but that might be a problem down the line if someone works for a while to build up a massive city and then it gets destroyed in one shot. One workaround might be a nuke-shield for a city. You can buy one for a substantial price (200 Geos?), but that city can not ever be damaged by nukes again. However, if you lose control of the city by normal means, the nuke shield would stay intact for the new player to have. This would allow us to raise the price of nukes but then allow them to completely wipe out cities that don't have a shield. 2 - New resource gathering. I think I'll start with oil. My plan is roughly as follows. I'll create a new KML file you need to download. (note: I'll probably do this for each new type of resource, so you can pick and choose what to go after.) Next, I'll set up giant blocks of land on the map that are oil-rich. I'll probably make dark-gray, flat polygons. You can go into one of those areas and set-up an oil well. However, there are a few catches: - It will cost you - maybe 25 Geos? - It can't be within xx miles of another well. - It might be completely dry. If you find a good spot (completely random within the "oil-rich area"), it will generate xx barrels per hour/day for xx days. I would think a good one would earn you a couple hundred barrels before it dries up. The occasional great one would get you a couple thousand. You can trade those barrels of oil in for Geos to use on armies and supplies. Down the road, you might be able to steal oil wells from other players or sell them. Not sure. Thoughts on these two ideas?

08-17-2005, 10:06 AM	#8
France Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4	strategy to be the king of the word forever I think it's good to have to controle the natural ressources point (oil or whatever). But if you have to control those point, you may balance the interest to controle cities, because I won't be interested anymore to try to have cities (that cost), and I will use all my armies to controle ressources to get GEOs. Up to the point that I will be soooooo rich that I can kill everybody and become the King of the Word gnacgnacgnac!!! And as I will be alone in the earth, I will controle ALL the ressources and will be king FOREVER!!!! Sad strategy, you're right, but it can work. I think you may put, in the same time you creat natural ressources, the fact that cities allow you to put taxes and get money. Maybe you can use the system of making the size of the city changing due to the facte you put less or much taxes. Or you simplify the system with a fixed taxe rate, but different for each city (then some cities can be more interesting with a smaller population than another). You propably can find real datas to use, like productivity of populations, or so on. Excellent work anyway!!! When the game will be stabilized, ask us to translate it, if you want: I can do it in french.

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08-17-2005, 01:42 PM	#9
rasqual Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 459	Comments good, but I don't understand any sense in which implementing wealth generation engines is at variance with realism. I see it as being QUITE realistic. We're all talking with one voice here, I think. Let me summarize my realism concern this way: if you have an opportunity to implement some architecture or feature realistically, and don't, that would be a shame. If doing so would require far more development effort than you have time to put in, commeding a less realistic design choice, well, what can you do? That's a realistic limit in YOUR world! That's my plea. Don't GRATUITOUSLY avoid realism at points where you have the power to embrace and extend it. Only avoid realism where you just don't have time to go there. THe objection that trying to be realistic will make the game less fun, though (or that one must embrace a determined lack of realism in order to achieve as much), is simply not something I'll hear from anyone without putting up a fight, because it's a ridiculous notion. To date, nearly every suggestion implemented has been in the direction of more -- not less -- realism. But I yammer.

08-17-2005, 05:25 PM	#11
rasqual Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 459	Say - With RISK in mind, how about having extrusions for armies -- have them be little tent shapes. Pup tents. Just two planes meeting at about a 80 degree angle. Something like that. Assemble armies wherever they're deployed. Attack cities directly from a link in the balloon (don't link to an attack page, just park the Get URL right in the balloon html). Watch tents disappear one by one (the battle rages over time). Could be fun.